- Posts: 1
× Members
PIP Mandatory reconsideration advice
- Geordielad880
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
1 day 1 hour ago #303267 by Geordielad880
PIP Mandatory reconsideration advice was created by Geordielad880
Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can give me some advice around mandatory reconsiderations. It's my first time posting a question, so please be nice 🙂
I recently completed my pip review, I had standard care, enhanced mobility, got given the same at review this time, despite my conditions deteriorating significantly, and my daily living needs are alot higher, as are my mobility needs, I don't agree with my points given for daily living activities, I scored 11 for daily living, and 24 for mobility, my highest score was a 3 for daily living, this is despite the fact I require my partner/carer to cook all my meals, help dress me, wash both my upper and lower body, I have hydrotherapy, physiotherapy home exercise and tens machine for a total of 12 hours per week and scored 0 for managing therapy and require assistance with all therapy, can't use toilet without someone physically helping me, my carer manages all my medications and finances, yet I score 0 for both, I outlined both in assessment and in forms that I have cognitive issues because of non epileptic seizures and have memory problems and have missed medication and taken it twice on a number of occasions, got into debt because I couldn't manage my bills myself.
The whole pip process has caused me significant deterioration in my mental health and physical health, I'm not coping at all, I had to ring crisis team because I'm just not coping, can't get any support from welfare rights, citizens advice have huge backlog and have been unhelpful in the past, i just don't know how I'm going to challenge the decision, I even thought about giving up totally as I have Uc50 to come shortly, I have been suicidal, scared to talk to GP because they will probably stop my pain medication which is limited already because of my liver cirrhosis, and my pain is excruciating and totally unbearable, my mandatory reconsideration has gone past deadline now, but apparently from advice from one company I contacted you can still do it within 13 months, if explanation is given.
I have got a copy of Assessors report, throughout the report it says no evidence of secondary mental health care, and stable mental health because meds haven't changed in last year, I have been on waiting list since June 24 for mental health support and my meds can't change as they can't increase my dose because of my liver cirrhosis and there are no other options available, said similar in regards to my chronic pain, no prescribed high level pain meds, because i'm not allowed!! It's infuriating, I provided pain management consultant letter which explains that in detail, I also told the Assessor aswell, how can I be penalised for not having adequate mental health support, it's not my fault I'm on waiting list, I sent records from NHS app showing gp concerns, pain management concerns etc about my mental health. I have had a private occupational health assessment paid for myself after the assessment, which is significantly different to the DWP report, would this help much for Mandatory reconsideration? They seem to have ignored everything pretty much evidence wise, even the fact I'm not under neurology for seizures anymore, well I'm discharged because they are non epileptic, and there is no treatment apart from mental health support etc.
My review form I sent off was over 100 pages long including evidence, and as you can probably tell from this message I'm not very good at concise descriptions of my issues for each descriptor, I find it so difficult and overwhelming knowing what exactly to write, how to put it etc, are there companies that can help, as in a paid service that anyone recommends?
I have literally got so overwhelmed by the whole process, not sleeping, not eating, seizures have gone through the roof, feel like I'm going to have a breakdown, that I just can't cope with the whole process and cancel everything, it's hard enough living with all my health conditions, never mind all this aswell, I'm petrified about the future, I currently would lose my daily living for pip, health element for UC, carer would lose her carers allowance, with the planned changes, I can't go anywhere unaccompanied, and couldn't manage my daily life without support at all, it's frightening!! I couldn't attend medical appointments, I have severe anxiety, depression and agoraphobia, and need support from my carer for all my appointments, which I have so many appointments.
I have liver cirrhosis, peripheral neuropathy, Disassociated Seizures, Postural hypotension, Autonomic Dysfunction, esophageal dysmotility, gastritis, esophageal varices, portal hypertension, muscle wastage, depression, anxiety and agoraphobia, hypermobility Ehlers Danlos syndrome, Widespread musculoskeletal problems, Chronic Pain through joints and muscles, dilated aorta, hepatic encephalopathy, and under investigation for rheumatoid arthritis and COPD, have sleep reversal because of liver cirrhosis, chronic fatigue.
Majority of my conditions are life limiting, chronic, and will only deteriorate, i honestly don't know what else I can do, they have so much medical evidence, I have explained how each condition affects my ability to perform daily living activities, the occupational therapy assessment report is so accurate compared to DWP one, maybe because they don't try and constantly trip you up, ignore things you say, make false assumptions, and it was done at home. They recommended adaptations in the report, my issue is I live with my parents as they have a bungalow, and my relationship with my dad is awful, hes had several strokes, and he won't allow me to have any adaptations, use pretty much any aides as they apparently get in the way, so my life is a constant struggle, with so many falls, and accidents, the OT recommend rehousing to adapted property, which I'm scared to do with pip planned changes, it would be a struggle financially now, never mind after the changes, how do DWP view the fact my parents won't allow me to have adaptations, and use the majority of aides? It's not exactly my fault.
I probably don't have that much time to live, was given a rough time of 5 years at liver cirrhosis diagnosis, and transplant is very unlikely because of my other conditions, and I should be able to spent time with my partner and family, the time I have left without having to go through all of this constantly, between my general suffering and medical conditions, and my numerous hospital appointments it's hard enough, it's almost like they are trying to kill as many disabled people as possible off, surely they know how this will affect people, there has to be thousands of people in similar situations to me, wrote to my MP, Stephen Timms, and the parliamentary committee, and several other MPs from other parties, just got standard responses, about how much funding they are putting into support for employment etc, and nobody would lose benefits who have significant needs, umm I think I prove that is completely untrue!!
Apologies for the very very long message, and advice, support, would be greatly appreciated, I know ultimately I don't currently have to challenge my decision as it hasn't changed, but it's not correct, I score my
I recently completed my pip review, I had standard care, enhanced mobility, got given the same at review this time, despite my conditions deteriorating significantly, and my daily living needs are alot higher, as are my mobility needs, I don't agree with my points given for daily living activities, I scored 11 for daily living, and 24 for mobility, my highest score was a 3 for daily living, this is despite the fact I require my partner/carer to cook all my meals, help dress me, wash both my upper and lower body, I have hydrotherapy, physiotherapy home exercise and tens machine for a total of 12 hours per week and scored 0 for managing therapy and require assistance with all therapy, can't use toilet without someone physically helping me, my carer manages all my medications and finances, yet I score 0 for both, I outlined both in assessment and in forms that I have cognitive issues because of non epileptic seizures and have memory problems and have missed medication and taken it twice on a number of occasions, got into debt because I couldn't manage my bills myself.
The whole pip process has caused me significant deterioration in my mental health and physical health, I'm not coping at all, I had to ring crisis team because I'm just not coping, can't get any support from welfare rights, citizens advice have huge backlog and have been unhelpful in the past, i just don't know how I'm going to challenge the decision, I even thought about giving up totally as I have Uc50 to come shortly, I have been suicidal, scared to talk to GP because they will probably stop my pain medication which is limited already because of my liver cirrhosis, and my pain is excruciating and totally unbearable, my mandatory reconsideration has gone past deadline now, but apparently from advice from one company I contacted you can still do it within 13 months, if explanation is given.
I have got a copy of Assessors report, throughout the report it says no evidence of secondary mental health care, and stable mental health because meds haven't changed in last year, I have been on waiting list since June 24 for mental health support and my meds can't change as they can't increase my dose because of my liver cirrhosis and there are no other options available, said similar in regards to my chronic pain, no prescribed high level pain meds, because i'm not allowed!! It's infuriating, I provided pain management consultant letter which explains that in detail, I also told the Assessor aswell, how can I be penalised for not having adequate mental health support, it's not my fault I'm on waiting list, I sent records from NHS app showing gp concerns, pain management concerns etc about my mental health. I have had a private occupational health assessment paid for myself after the assessment, which is significantly different to the DWP report, would this help much for Mandatory reconsideration? They seem to have ignored everything pretty much evidence wise, even the fact I'm not under neurology for seizures anymore, well I'm discharged because they are non epileptic, and there is no treatment apart from mental health support etc.
My review form I sent off was over 100 pages long including evidence, and as you can probably tell from this message I'm not very good at concise descriptions of my issues for each descriptor, I find it so difficult and overwhelming knowing what exactly to write, how to put it etc, are there companies that can help, as in a paid service that anyone recommends?
I have literally got so overwhelmed by the whole process, not sleeping, not eating, seizures have gone through the roof, feel like I'm going to have a breakdown, that I just can't cope with the whole process and cancel everything, it's hard enough living with all my health conditions, never mind all this aswell, I'm petrified about the future, I currently would lose my daily living for pip, health element for UC, carer would lose her carers allowance, with the planned changes, I can't go anywhere unaccompanied, and couldn't manage my daily life without support at all, it's frightening!! I couldn't attend medical appointments, I have severe anxiety, depression and agoraphobia, and need support from my carer for all my appointments, which I have so many appointments.
I have liver cirrhosis, peripheral neuropathy, Disassociated Seizures, Postural hypotension, Autonomic Dysfunction, esophageal dysmotility, gastritis, esophageal varices, portal hypertension, muscle wastage, depression, anxiety and agoraphobia, hypermobility Ehlers Danlos syndrome, Widespread musculoskeletal problems, Chronic Pain through joints and muscles, dilated aorta, hepatic encephalopathy, and under investigation for rheumatoid arthritis and COPD, have sleep reversal because of liver cirrhosis, chronic fatigue.
Majority of my conditions are life limiting, chronic, and will only deteriorate, i honestly don't know what else I can do, they have so much medical evidence, I have explained how each condition affects my ability to perform daily living activities, the occupational therapy assessment report is so accurate compared to DWP one, maybe because they don't try and constantly trip you up, ignore things you say, make false assumptions, and it was done at home. They recommended adaptations in the report, my issue is I live with my parents as they have a bungalow, and my relationship with my dad is awful, hes had several strokes, and he won't allow me to have any adaptations, use pretty much any aides as they apparently get in the way, so my life is a constant struggle, with so many falls, and accidents, the OT recommend rehousing to adapted property, which I'm scared to do with pip planned changes, it would be a struggle financially now, never mind after the changes, how do DWP view the fact my parents won't allow me to have adaptations, and use the majority of aides? It's not exactly my fault.
I probably don't have that much time to live, was given a rough time of 5 years at liver cirrhosis diagnosis, and transplant is very unlikely because of my other conditions, and I should be able to spent time with my partner and family, the time I have left without having to go through all of this constantly, between my general suffering and medical conditions, and my numerous hospital appointments it's hard enough, it's almost like they are trying to kill as many disabled people as possible off, surely they know how this will affect people, there has to be thousands of people in similar situations to me, wrote to my MP, Stephen Timms, and the parliamentary committee, and several other MPs from other parties, just got standard responses, about how much funding they are putting into support for employment etc, and nobody would lose benefits who have significant needs, umm I think I prove that is completely untrue!!
Apologies for the very very long message, and advice, support, would be greatly appreciated, I know ultimately I don't currently have to challenge my decision as it hasn't changed, but it's not correct, I score my
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- BIS
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 8947
14 hours 4 minutes ago #303306 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP Mandatory reconsideration advice
Hi Geordielad880
Welcome to the forum.
In your post, you have said how fragile your mental health is at the moment, so the first thing you need to ask yourself is whether you are currently strong enough to put in for a Mandatory Reconsideration. As you have already missed the one-month deadline, you will have to put in a late MR and explain that, due to suicidal ideation and your other health issues, you were not well enough to do it immediately.
Should you use a firm to help you write your Mandatory Reconsideration? We don't recommend anyone do that as they are very expensive and, from what we have heard, many people don't have a good experience. There may be members on the forum who will recommend services they have used, but we cannot vouch for or endorse any companies or individuals mentioned.
I know you feel that you can't express yourself in the right way, but I disagree. You may have to tweak what you say to fit in with what the DWP wants, but don't put yourself down. No one knows you better than you, so remember you are the expert.
I know it feels as if the assessor didn't understand what you were trying to say. Well, they probably didn't, but it's not personal. They have to give their opinion, and their views don't align with yours. Your job is to show how they were mistaken. I want to warn you now that only 27% of claimants win their Mandatory Reconsiderations. I don't say that to depress you further, but you need to be realistic. It's a possibility that you will put in a lot of work and be unsuccessful, and then you would have to decide if you want to put in an Appeal. Claimants are far more successful in appeals, with approximately 67% of cases resulting in a favourable outcome.
Will your private occupational health assessment be useful for your MR. You can include it - but in reality, the DWP often ignores reports that have been paid for - because they assume that the health professional may have been tempted to write a more favourable report. I think this is rather insulting to the many private health professionals. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it - but it may not have the impact that you are hoping for.
Before you even start tackling this, you should look at the four Guides under PIP Appeals - because they will really help you put your MR together when you're ready. benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip. You haven't said who your carer is - but hopefully someone can help you go through these - it really is worth it. You won't need to read every page and one of the most important is the guide "Best possible ways to challenge a PIP medical report". This has lots of example text which you can just use and drop in your specific conditions.
Multiple conditions: You have a lot of conditions, and I suspect that the assessor didn't know what half of them were, and they may not have looked them up. If you haven't already, I would create a table with three columns. In column one list the name of the condition. In the second column, list the description of the condition (taken from a reputable website like the NHS), and in column 3, list the main symptoms that you experience from that condition. Don't try to list every minute symptom. Before the table you put in one paragraph saying that you believe the assessor misunderstood some of your conditions so you have included it for information. You may not know, but the decision maker who gave you the award is not a medical person and so they rely on what the assessor puts in the report. The assessors very rarely include all people's medical conditions, so if you think major things have been excluded, you need to say so.
I have no idea what you wrote on your form or how you arranged the 100 pages of evidence, so please don't be offended by anything I say in the next couple of paragraphs, because none of it is said as a criticism.
Sending in lots of evidence doesn't guarantee a positive outcome as you have found. I know people who have sent in 100 pages or more of evidence and been awarded enhanced PIP for daily living and mobility and I know people who have received the same enhanced award with only 1 page. If you send in a lot of evidence, it must be clear which of the specific PIP questions it relates to - so the assessor doesn't have to work it out for themselves. This is especially true when you have multiple conditions. So for example - let's look at the question Preparing a Meal. (obviously I don't know what you wrote - but you said the assessor ignored this)
The assessor has misunderstood or ignored the reasons why I never cook a meal. This is because I can't do it safely, due to my frequent non epileptic seizures (see letter 1 from Dr X, dated 13.12 2022), the constant severe pain due to cirrhosis of the liver (see letter 2 from Dr Y, dated 08.12, 2013), peripheral neuropathy (see letter 3 from D J, dated ....). The symptoms from these three conditions mean that I cannot handle knives because of the danger of cutting myself, or dropping a pan when I suddenly collapse due to a seizure or the risk of burning myself due to a poor grip when removing something from the microwave.
Now by including your evidence that you sent in - that confirms conditions that you have and points out why it is a problem. Don't try and argue every condition for every question because it will overwhelm them and they won't make sense of it. In the example I gave you could always add a second paragraph saying that as well as the pain, poor grip and seizures your severe depression means you have no motivation. I know it's been suggested you may have adaptions, but you need to say that isn't possible because of your circumstances.
One of the things that you need to be aware of is the managing therapy. You would not have scored any points for that - unless you are doing something that has been prescribed for you to do by a medical professional. Like the physiotherapy. In which case you need to say what is you need to do and why you need the help of your carer.
Not managing your finance. You will have to link that to one of your conditions. It's not enough to say that you get confused. They will want to know which condition is giving you the cognitive issues. The seizures happen, and then you recover until the next one. Arguing that your depression makes it impossible to concentrate or causes you to act compulsively may improve your chances.
I don't know whether your carer wrote a letter - they can write one - just one side A4 in length keeping to the PIP criteria saying what they have observed and what they have to do for you. If your mother would be willing to write a letter saying that your home is too small to have any aids - then include one as well.
That's all I can think of at the moment. If you do decide to go for it - just tackle one question at a time. Do not call the assessor a liar - even if it is true. Use words such as "mistaken", "misunderstood" , 'ommitted" "forgot" "ignored" etc.
Now I know it's a lot to take in for you. If you want to find an organisation to help you, do so, but bear in mind it may not be as helpful as you hope. First priority is to get yourself to a place where you can cope. You are capable of doing this - you just need to believe in yourself.
If you have any further questions, come back and ask, and we will try to help.
BIS
Welcome to the forum.
In your post, you have said how fragile your mental health is at the moment, so the first thing you need to ask yourself is whether you are currently strong enough to put in for a Mandatory Reconsideration. As you have already missed the one-month deadline, you will have to put in a late MR and explain that, due to suicidal ideation and your other health issues, you were not well enough to do it immediately.
Should you use a firm to help you write your Mandatory Reconsideration? We don't recommend anyone do that as they are very expensive and, from what we have heard, many people don't have a good experience. There may be members on the forum who will recommend services they have used, but we cannot vouch for or endorse any companies or individuals mentioned.
I know you feel that you can't express yourself in the right way, but I disagree. You may have to tweak what you say to fit in with what the DWP wants, but don't put yourself down. No one knows you better than you, so remember you are the expert.
I know it feels as if the assessor didn't understand what you were trying to say. Well, they probably didn't, but it's not personal. They have to give their opinion, and their views don't align with yours. Your job is to show how they were mistaken. I want to warn you now that only 27% of claimants win their Mandatory Reconsiderations. I don't say that to depress you further, but you need to be realistic. It's a possibility that you will put in a lot of work and be unsuccessful, and then you would have to decide if you want to put in an Appeal. Claimants are far more successful in appeals, with approximately 67% of cases resulting in a favourable outcome.
Will your private occupational health assessment be useful for your MR. You can include it - but in reality, the DWP often ignores reports that have been paid for - because they assume that the health professional may have been tempted to write a more favourable report. I think this is rather insulting to the many private health professionals. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it - but it may not have the impact that you are hoping for.
Before you even start tackling this, you should look at the four Guides under PIP Appeals - because they will really help you put your MR together when you're ready. benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/pip. You haven't said who your carer is - but hopefully someone can help you go through these - it really is worth it. You won't need to read every page and one of the most important is the guide "Best possible ways to challenge a PIP medical report". This has lots of example text which you can just use and drop in your specific conditions.
Multiple conditions: You have a lot of conditions, and I suspect that the assessor didn't know what half of them were, and they may not have looked them up. If you haven't already, I would create a table with three columns. In column one list the name of the condition. In the second column, list the description of the condition (taken from a reputable website like the NHS), and in column 3, list the main symptoms that you experience from that condition. Don't try to list every minute symptom. Before the table you put in one paragraph saying that you believe the assessor misunderstood some of your conditions so you have included it for information. You may not know, but the decision maker who gave you the award is not a medical person and so they rely on what the assessor puts in the report. The assessors very rarely include all people's medical conditions, so if you think major things have been excluded, you need to say so.
I have no idea what you wrote on your form or how you arranged the 100 pages of evidence, so please don't be offended by anything I say in the next couple of paragraphs, because none of it is said as a criticism.
Sending in lots of evidence doesn't guarantee a positive outcome as you have found. I know people who have sent in 100 pages or more of evidence and been awarded enhanced PIP for daily living and mobility and I know people who have received the same enhanced award with only 1 page. If you send in a lot of evidence, it must be clear which of the specific PIP questions it relates to - so the assessor doesn't have to work it out for themselves. This is especially true when you have multiple conditions. So for example - let's look at the question Preparing a Meal. (obviously I don't know what you wrote - but you said the assessor ignored this)
The assessor has misunderstood or ignored the reasons why I never cook a meal. This is because I can't do it safely, due to my frequent non epileptic seizures (see letter 1 from Dr X, dated 13.12 2022), the constant severe pain due to cirrhosis of the liver (see letter 2 from Dr Y, dated 08.12, 2013), peripheral neuropathy (see letter 3 from D J, dated ....). The symptoms from these three conditions mean that I cannot handle knives because of the danger of cutting myself, or dropping a pan when I suddenly collapse due to a seizure or the risk of burning myself due to a poor grip when removing something from the microwave.
Now by including your evidence that you sent in - that confirms conditions that you have and points out why it is a problem. Don't try and argue every condition for every question because it will overwhelm them and they won't make sense of it. In the example I gave you could always add a second paragraph saying that as well as the pain, poor grip and seizures your severe depression means you have no motivation. I know it's been suggested you may have adaptions, but you need to say that isn't possible because of your circumstances.
One of the things that you need to be aware of is the managing therapy. You would not have scored any points for that - unless you are doing something that has been prescribed for you to do by a medical professional. Like the physiotherapy. In which case you need to say what is you need to do and why you need the help of your carer.
Not managing your finance. You will have to link that to one of your conditions. It's not enough to say that you get confused. They will want to know which condition is giving you the cognitive issues. The seizures happen, and then you recover until the next one. Arguing that your depression makes it impossible to concentrate or causes you to act compulsively may improve your chances.
I don't know whether your carer wrote a letter - they can write one - just one side A4 in length keeping to the PIP criteria saying what they have observed and what they have to do for you. If your mother would be willing to write a letter saying that your home is too small to have any aids - then include one as well.
That's all I can think of at the moment. If you do decide to go for it - just tackle one question at a time. Do not call the assessor a liar - even if it is true. Use words such as "mistaken", "misunderstood" , 'ommitted" "forgot" "ignored" etc.
Now I know it's a lot to take in for you. If you want to find an organisation to help you, do so, but bear in mind it may not be as helpful as you hope. First priority is to get yourself to a place where you can cope. You are capable of doing this - you just need to believe in yourself.
If you have any further questions, come back and ask, and we will try to help.
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Geordielad880
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David