- Posts: 3
× Members
PIP decision on Majority of Days.
- JG2
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
2 months 6 days ago #299493 by JG2
PIP decision on Majority of Days. was created by JG2
I'm my partner's carer.
We had a PIP review and I'm about to ask for a mandatory reconsideration as existing Mental Health difficulties that have been included and approved before in PIP reviews have been disregarded this time.
They say there is no evidence of the mental Health problem! It was discussed in the phone assessment. His GP is going to put together a letter, but this will be delayed and arrive after the review request has to go in, so I hope I can send it 'to follow'.
Also, the decision on aspects of difficulty scores was decided by 'what your needs are on the majority of days'. Is this fair? Because he may be able to do something one day might mean he can't do it for a few days after.
It is important that we get the mental Health recognised as part of the mobility section as my partner reaches pension age in March and he really does deserve to have that carried through to retirement as it has been awarded up until now.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks.
We had a PIP review and I'm about to ask for a mandatory reconsideration as existing Mental Health difficulties that have been included and approved before in PIP reviews have been disregarded this time.
They say there is no evidence of the mental Health problem! It was discussed in the phone assessment. His GP is going to put together a letter, but this will be delayed and arrive after the review request has to go in, so I hope I can send it 'to follow'.
Also, the decision on aspects of difficulty scores was decided by 'what your needs are on the majority of days'. Is this fair? Because he may be able to do something one day might mean he can't do it for a few days after.
It is important that we get the mental Health recognised as part of the mobility section as my partner reaches pension age in March and he really does deserve to have that carried through to retirement as it has been awarded up until now.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- LL26
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 1479
2 months 3 days ago #299566 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP decision on Majority of Days.
Hi JG2,
First, you may be able to get DWP to agree an extension for the MR. (Ring them and request- say you're awaiting medical evidence. ) Secondly, although theoretically the MR has to be sent in within 1 month of the decision date, you can put in a late MR. You need to show you have a reasonable excuse. Awaiting a medical report for a week or 2 would I'm sure fit within being reasonable. You can send in an MR up to 13 mths late, but the later you send the better the excuse! Illness, bereavement, other difficult personal circumstances could all amount to reasonable excuse, receiving incorrect legal advice from a properly qualified advisor or lawyer, might also qualify.
If the delay for the med report is unlikely to very long it might be preferable to await this and send in a complete MR late. If you send in a partial MR, even if you ask DWP to wait they may not actually do this!
Majority of days
This derives from PIP Regulations 2013 - Reg. 7. -
Please see the text here
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/377/regulation/7
Basically DWP ( or the tribunal if on appeal,) need to consider whether each descriptor activity can be performed 'reliably' for over 50% of all the days. Reg 7 also permits aggregating activities in a section to achieve over 50% of days.
I mentioned 'reliably' this is a shorthand way of describing Reg 4(2A). - this requires 4 criteria to be met - all 4 are needed.
Safety
Acceptable standard
Reasonable Time
Repetition.
Let's look an example.
Descriptor 1 deals with the ability to cook/prepare food. (A simple meal for one using fresh ingredients. )
If you have poor grip and drop items, knives or spill hot food then it is unlikely to be safe.
If pain is a problem, or you make eg a terrible mess in the kitchen, or maybe you have no idea whether food is cooked, it's likely this isn't ti an acceptable standard
Perhaps your fine motor skills or mental processing mean it takes you a really long time to chop the carrot- more than twice that of your non disabled friend - you fail the reasonable time test.
Repetition is perhaps the main issue here. The test requires repetition across the whole day as many times as reasonably required. Now cooking is likely to be 3 or 4 times per day. Toilet needs could be 5 times or much more if incontinence- so each task has its own repetition. If you miss a repetition, unless for a very insignificant time, you will fail to repeat and can't meet Reg 4(2A).
This could be relevant for your partner can do PIP tasks for part of the day or part of the week. DWP are notoriously bad at Reg 4(2A). From your post it seems like they may have got the test a bit confused!
If you can't do all the day's repetitions in each task then it counts towards your over 50% of days. So to go back to the cooking example - if you can't actually cook etc etc on a day, you're not 'safe, 'acceptable' or quick enough these days will also count towards the 50% If you fail to 'repeat' for the whole day this also is another day that counts. If you're not safe/acceptable/quick enough then this means you also can't 'repeat'.
Reg 7 provides that you only score the highest value of points, where more than 1 section in each descriptor applies equally. Or alternatively most prevalent level will be scored where different levels are satisfied unequally.
This means if you have more than one disability with different effects, you can aggregate eg 20% of days not being able to chop vegetables due to hand pain problems and 40% of days due to migraine and sight issues.
If you are not 'reliable' this indicates a degree of help is required This could be a gadget - aud/appliance or physical help or despite either if these are not 'reliable' for over 50% of days then you are likely to fall within the 'cannot do at all category.
This is the approach for all descriptors.
If however, the sum total of all disabling health conditions means that you can still perform the relevant descriptor activity/activities for the majority of days, taking account any aggregation, then no points can be scored. So using the previous example. Cant chop veg hand problems = 12% and migraine problems are only 10% you have only achieved 22% of days. No descriptor in the set will ever apply.
Each descriptor set is mutually exclusive. You can aggregate from within the same set, but you can't borrow from another descriptor set.
If you are unsure if any descriptor/s within a set apply, do a diary. Note difficulties- including can not/ reliability problems including potential safety issues like eg normally having shaking hands, or possibility of epileptic fit, or non injury falls, dropping of items etc as well as actual 'reliability' concerns such as slowness and non repetition. A tally at the end of a week or 2 will soon show if your partner reaches the magic over 50% of problem days!
You can't get a new/upgraded mobility element after state pension age, so it is important to get this sorted now, or at least do MR/appeal, which can then be able to make a mobility award even if decided later.
I have used cooking as an example as that is easier to explain. The process and rules are the sane for mobility.
I hope this helps.
LL26
First, you may be able to get DWP to agree an extension for the MR. (Ring them and request- say you're awaiting medical evidence. ) Secondly, although theoretically the MR has to be sent in within 1 month of the decision date, you can put in a late MR. You need to show you have a reasonable excuse. Awaiting a medical report for a week or 2 would I'm sure fit within being reasonable. You can send in an MR up to 13 mths late, but the later you send the better the excuse! Illness, bereavement, other difficult personal circumstances could all amount to reasonable excuse, receiving incorrect legal advice from a properly qualified advisor or lawyer, might also qualify.
If the delay for the med report is unlikely to very long it might be preferable to await this and send in a complete MR late. If you send in a partial MR, even if you ask DWP to wait they may not actually do this!
Majority of days
This derives from PIP Regulations 2013 - Reg. 7. -
Please see the text here
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/377/regulation/7
Basically DWP ( or the tribunal if on appeal,) need to consider whether each descriptor activity can be performed 'reliably' for over 50% of all the days. Reg 7 also permits aggregating activities in a section to achieve over 50% of days.
I mentioned 'reliably' this is a shorthand way of describing Reg 4(2A). - this requires 4 criteria to be met - all 4 are needed.
Safety
Acceptable standard
Reasonable Time
Repetition.
Let's look an example.
Descriptor 1 deals with the ability to cook/prepare food. (A simple meal for one using fresh ingredients. )
If you have poor grip and drop items, knives or spill hot food then it is unlikely to be safe.
If pain is a problem, or you make eg a terrible mess in the kitchen, or maybe you have no idea whether food is cooked, it's likely this isn't ti an acceptable standard
Perhaps your fine motor skills or mental processing mean it takes you a really long time to chop the carrot- more than twice that of your non disabled friend - you fail the reasonable time test.
Repetition is perhaps the main issue here. The test requires repetition across the whole day as many times as reasonably required. Now cooking is likely to be 3 or 4 times per day. Toilet needs could be 5 times or much more if incontinence- so each task has its own repetition. If you miss a repetition, unless for a very insignificant time, you will fail to repeat and can't meet Reg 4(2A).
This could be relevant for your partner can do PIP tasks for part of the day or part of the week. DWP are notoriously bad at Reg 4(2A). From your post it seems like they may have got the test a bit confused!
If you can't do all the day's repetitions in each task then it counts towards your over 50% of days. So to go back to the cooking example - if you can't actually cook etc etc on a day, you're not 'safe, 'acceptable' or quick enough these days will also count towards the 50% If you fail to 'repeat' for the whole day this also is another day that counts. If you're not safe/acceptable/quick enough then this means you also can't 'repeat'.
Reg 7 provides that you only score the highest value of points, where more than 1 section in each descriptor applies equally. Or alternatively most prevalent level will be scored where different levels are satisfied unequally.
This means if you have more than one disability with different effects, you can aggregate eg 20% of days not being able to chop vegetables due to hand pain problems and 40% of days due to migraine and sight issues.
If you are not 'reliable' this indicates a degree of help is required This could be a gadget - aud/appliance or physical help or despite either if these are not 'reliable' for over 50% of days then you are likely to fall within the 'cannot do at all category.
This is the approach for all descriptors.
If however, the sum total of all disabling health conditions means that you can still perform the relevant descriptor activity/activities for the majority of days, taking account any aggregation, then no points can be scored. So using the previous example. Cant chop veg hand problems = 12% and migraine problems are only 10% you have only achieved 22% of days. No descriptor in the set will ever apply.
Each descriptor set is mutually exclusive. You can aggregate from within the same set, but you can't borrow from another descriptor set.
If you are unsure if any descriptor/s within a set apply, do a diary. Note difficulties- including can not/ reliability problems including potential safety issues like eg normally having shaking hands, or possibility of epileptic fit, or non injury falls, dropping of items etc as well as actual 'reliability' concerns such as slowness and non repetition. A tally at the end of a week or 2 will soon show if your partner reaches the magic over 50% of problem days!
You can't get a new/upgraded mobility element after state pension age, so it is important to get this sorted now, or at least do MR/appeal, which can then be able to make a mobility award even if decided later.
I have used cooking as an example as that is easier to explain. The process and rules are the sane for mobility.
I hope this helps.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: JG2
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David