- Posts: 4
- Forum
- Members forums
- ESA, PIP and DLA Queries and Results
- UC managed migration from ESA (support group)
× Members
UC managed migration from ESA (support group)
- Tom1965
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
2 months 5 days ago #294473 by Tom1965
UC managed migration from ESA (support group) was created by Tom1965
HI, this is my first post, so I am hoping I don't do anything wrong.
I received my migration notice a few weeks back as housing benefit was stopping. I have been on support ESA for a very long time, having moved to it from incapacity benefit. I also get PIP.
I had my interview at the Job Centre yesterday and despite not being able to work, I had to agree to the minimum work I could do. I was told if I didn't, then my claim would stop. I have been asked to get a fit note from my GP, but this goes against everything I Have been reading on the Gov.uk site. I am moving from ESA to UC without a break, I was in the support group of ESA, and I have had a work capability assessment. (Too many to remember).
I rang UC today, to query all of this and was sent to the pre claim line, who then sent me back to UC line. No-one seemed able to answer my question of why I am being asked for a fit note when I tick the boxes for not. I was told to write everything into my journal but mark it as a 'payment' query, so it would go to a manager.
I am not going to lie, my anxiety is TOTALLY through the roof. I am struggling to sleep, eat and settle.
The thought of going through another WCA makes me ill. I have already this year had to appeal PIP with all the humiliation that involves.
Please can someone explain to me why I am being pushed for a fit note and I guess also why I had to agree to do 20hrs (I think she said) a week of work, when I can't. She was very reassuring that all would be okay, but I have autism and adhd along with fibro and bi polar so sometimes I mishear, misunderstand and get panicky with red tape/official stuff.
thank you for reading.
Tom
I received my migration notice a few weeks back as housing benefit was stopping. I have been on support ESA for a very long time, having moved to it from incapacity benefit. I also get PIP.
I had my interview at the Job Centre yesterday and despite not being able to work, I had to agree to the minimum work I could do. I was told if I didn't, then my claim would stop. I have been asked to get a fit note from my GP, but this goes against everything I Have been reading on the Gov.uk site. I am moving from ESA to UC without a break, I was in the support group of ESA, and I have had a work capability assessment. (Too many to remember).
I rang UC today, to query all of this and was sent to the pre claim line, who then sent me back to UC line. No-one seemed able to answer my question of why I am being asked for a fit note when I tick the boxes for not. I was told to write everything into my journal but mark it as a 'payment' query, so it would go to a manager.
I am not going to lie, my anxiety is TOTALLY through the roof. I am struggling to sleep, eat and settle.
The thought of going through another WCA makes me ill. I have already this year had to appeal PIP with all the humiliation that involves.
Please can someone explain to me why I am being pushed for a fit note and I guess also why I had to agree to do 20hrs (I think she said) a week of work, when I can't. She was very reassuring that all would be okay, but I have autism and adhd along with fibro and bi polar so sometimes I mishear, misunderstand and get panicky with red tape/official stuff.
thank you for reading.
Tom
The following user(s) said Thank You: VIA
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gary
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 8169
2 months 5 days ago #294490 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic UC managed migration from ESA (support group)
Hi Tom
Welcome to the forum.
You might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is; www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq/forum.
You did everything right.
You do not need to provide a new fit note, we would advise you to speak to your work coach line manager, what they are telling you is incorrect, you may also want to take it up with your MP.
Now in answer to your question; What is important to note is that, once a decision has been made that a claimant is in the WRAG or the Support Group, then, even if the recommended review date comes and goes without the claimant being put through another WCA, the DWP cannot take away that status (ie supersede the decision) simply because someone has not yet been re-assessed!
Regulation 6 (2)(r) of the Social Security and Child Support (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 1999 states that an ESA decision may be superseded if a Healthcare Professional has provided the decision maker with medical evidence. In other words, a decision maker cannot remove the WRAG or Support Component unless a further WCA has taken place.
1. Regulation 19 of the UC (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014 makes it clear that those who move from ESA onto UC (and who have not been found fit for work), are to have: The LCW Element included in their UC assessment from the start of their UC award if they were in receipt of the Work Related Activity Component in their ESA award, or The LCWRA Element included in their UC assessment from the start of their UC award if they were in receipt of the Support Component in their ESA award. This means that the work capability decision MUST be transferred across from an ESA award to a UC one.
2. Regulation 6(2)(r) of the Social Security and Child Support (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 1999 (for IR-ESA) and Reg 26 of the Universal Credit, PIP, JSA and ESA (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2013 (for UC and New-Style ESA), both say that decisions on the WRAG/Support group for ESA and on the Limited Capability for Work/Work Related Activity in UC cannot be superseded - ie taken away - without evidence from a Healthcare Professional.
Therefore, even where the WCA review date has passed, the DWP cannot refuse to include a LCW /LCWRA Element in the UC assessment until a review WCA has been completed ie evidence from a Healthcare Professional received.
In addition, it would be unfair and discriminatory to penalise a claimant simply because, due to administrative delays within the DWP / the company contracted to organise and carry out Work Capability Assessments, they have not been reassessed on the planned date.
* the claimant is getting Contributory (or New-Style) ESA then the equivalent component that was included with their ESA claim should# be transferred to their UC claim ie:
* If they were getting the Work Related Activity Component in their ESA, their UC award should include a Limited Capability for Work (LCW) Element. Regulation 19(2) of the UC (TP) Regs 2014 (old style ESA); or Regulation 39(1)(a) of the UC Regs (2013) (new style ESA).
* If they were getting the Support Component in their ESA, their UC award should include a Limited Capability for Work Related Activity (LCWRA) Element. Regulation 19(4) of the UC (TP) Regs 2014 (old style ESA) or Regulation 40(1)(a)(ii) of the UC Regs (2013) (new style ESA).
We are aware that more often than not the appropriate Element is not included in the UC award - meaning their UC award is less than it should be.
Claimants can request the inclusion of the Element from the start of their claim on their journal by copying the above information.
If the claimant struggles to get the DWP to accept that their UC award should include the LCW/LCWRA Element from the start they should request a Mandatory Reconsideration and may find it useful to quote what Neil Couling stated in a letter in December 2017:
"An ESA claimant may have a change in their circumstances that means that he or she now has to claim UC. Providing that their claim is continuous, and there has been no change in their health condition, a determination made in the ESA claim that the claimant has a limited capability for work (LCW), or limited capability for work related activity (LCWRA), will be applied to the UC claim.”
We are finding that when someone moves from ESA to UC, the UC dept generally refer them for a review of their work capability ie a Work Capability Assessment - this includes those who may only just have had one for their ESA award, and those who may not be due a review for several years.
The UC dept are able to review someone's work capability at any time because the UC Regulations allow the them to refer a claimant for a new Work Capability Assessment.
So there is little that can be done accept go along the DWP's request ie complete a medical questionnaire / attend a medical.
Gary
Welcome to the forum.
You might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is; www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq/forum.
You did everything right.
You do not need to provide a new fit note, we would advise you to speak to your work coach line manager, what they are telling you is incorrect, you may also want to take it up with your MP.
Now in answer to your question; What is important to note is that, once a decision has been made that a claimant is in the WRAG or the Support Group, then, even if the recommended review date comes and goes without the claimant being put through another WCA, the DWP cannot take away that status (ie supersede the decision) simply because someone has not yet been re-assessed!
Regulation 6 (2)(r) of the Social Security and Child Support (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 1999 states that an ESA decision may be superseded if a Healthcare Professional has provided the decision maker with medical evidence. In other words, a decision maker cannot remove the WRAG or Support Component unless a further WCA has taken place.
1. Regulation 19 of the UC (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2014 makes it clear that those who move from ESA onto UC (and who have not been found fit for work), are to have: The LCW Element included in their UC assessment from the start of their UC award if they were in receipt of the Work Related Activity Component in their ESA award, or The LCWRA Element included in their UC assessment from the start of their UC award if they were in receipt of the Support Component in their ESA award. This means that the work capability decision MUST be transferred across from an ESA award to a UC one.
2. Regulation 6(2)(r) of the Social Security and Child Support (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 1999 (for IR-ESA) and Reg 26 of the Universal Credit, PIP, JSA and ESA (Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2013 (for UC and New-Style ESA), both say that decisions on the WRAG/Support group for ESA and on the Limited Capability for Work/Work Related Activity in UC cannot be superseded - ie taken away - without evidence from a Healthcare Professional.
Therefore, even where the WCA review date has passed, the DWP cannot refuse to include a LCW /LCWRA Element in the UC assessment until a review WCA has been completed ie evidence from a Healthcare Professional received.
In addition, it would be unfair and discriminatory to penalise a claimant simply because, due to administrative delays within the DWP / the company contracted to organise and carry out Work Capability Assessments, they have not been reassessed on the planned date.
* the claimant is getting Contributory (or New-Style) ESA then the equivalent component that was included with their ESA claim should# be transferred to their UC claim ie:
* If they were getting the Work Related Activity Component in their ESA, their UC award should include a Limited Capability for Work (LCW) Element. Regulation 19(2) of the UC (TP) Regs 2014 (old style ESA); or Regulation 39(1)(a) of the UC Regs (2013) (new style ESA).
* If they were getting the Support Component in their ESA, their UC award should include a Limited Capability for Work Related Activity (LCWRA) Element. Regulation 19(4) of the UC (TP) Regs 2014 (old style ESA) or Regulation 40(1)(a)(ii) of the UC Regs (2013) (new style ESA).
We are aware that more often than not the appropriate Element is not included in the UC award - meaning their UC award is less than it should be.
Claimants can request the inclusion of the Element from the start of their claim on their journal by copying the above information.
If the claimant struggles to get the DWP to accept that their UC award should include the LCW/LCWRA Element from the start they should request a Mandatory Reconsideration and may find it useful to quote what Neil Couling stated in a letter in December 2017:
"An ESA claimant may have a change in their circumstances that means that he or she now has to claim UC. Providing that their claim is continuous, and there has been no change in their health condition, a determination made in the ESA claim that the claimant has a limited capability for work (LCW), or limited capability for work related activity (LCWRA), will be applied to the UC claim.”
We are finding that when someone moves from ESA to UC, the UC dept generally refer them for a review of their work capability ie a Work Capability Assessment - this includes those who may only just have had one for their ESA award, and those who may not be due a review for several years.
The UC dept are able to review someone's work capability at any time because the UC Regulations allow the them to refer a claimant for a new Work Capability Assessment.
So there is little that can be done accept go along the DWP's request ie complete a medical questionnaire / attend a medical.
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gaddy, VIA, Tom1965, WillowTree
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Robbie
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 91
2 months 4 days ago #294504 by Robbie
Replied by Robbie on topic UC managed migration from ESA (support group)
Not only are the DWP supposed to maintain the LCW / LCWRA status when someone transfers from ESA to UC, but the Work Capability Assessment date is supposed to be maintained too. The DWP shouldn't be automatically referring someone for a WCA simply because they have migrated from ESA to UC.
The following user(s) said Thank You: VIA, Tom1965
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- VIA
- Away
Less More
- Posts: 178
2 months 3 days ago #294561 by VIA
Replied by VIA on topic UC managed migration from ESA (support group)
Hello Tom1965
I am sorry about what happened to you.
I thank you for sharing this information with us, as I am in the same situation as you, on ESA Support Group as I am sure many people on this forum are on ESA support group migrated to UC.
I hope you will be able to share an update with us soon.
Best wishes
VIA
I am sorry about what happened to you.
I thank you for sharing this information with us, as I am in the same situation as you, on ESA Support Group as I am sure many people on this forum are on ESA support group migrated to UC.
I hope you will be able to share an update with us soon.
Best wishes
VIA
The following user(s) said Thank You: j112009, Gaddy, Tom1965
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Tom1965
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 4
2 months 1 day ago #294614 by Tom1965
Replied by Tom1965 on topic UC managed migration from ESA (support group)
Hello, sorry for the long delay in responding. As expected, I haven't been very well since the initial appt at the JC. I had written in my journal after the appt about my confusion with the process, and why I needed the fit note, plus added in various links I had found showing what should have happened/be happening. I was due to have a telephone appt this coming Monday, but on Wednesday, I had a response on my journal saying the appointment had been cancelled, and if they needed any more information they would be in touch. So, I guess for now, the storm has subsided. Has left me quite shaken and exhausted. Thank you again for all your help and support. Means a lot.
The following user(s) said Thank You: VIA
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- VIA
- Away
Less More
- Posts: 178
1 month 4 weeks ago #294731 by VIA
Replied by VIA on topic UC managed migration from ESA (support group)
Hello Tom1965,
I hope you will feel better.
I am very grateful you took the time to give an update on your situation as I too am on ESA Support Group and I have been sent a migration letter to UC and I hope what happened to you does not happen to me.
I thank you for your help and support as you are helping greatly with your update.
Best wishes
I hope you will feel better.
I am very grateful you took the time to give an update on your situation as I too am on ESA Support Group and I have been sent a migration letter to UC and I hope what happened to you does not happen to me.
I thank you for your help and support as you are helping greatly with your update.
Best wishes
The following user(s) said Thank You: j112009
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David