Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment

Hi Denby

Thanks for your reply, I'm happy to hear I didn't upset you too much That's great news! Well done for persisting, I know it's hard to get a diagnosis for anything at the moment. I hope your diagnosis gives you some reassurance and comfort.
Yes, you are right, I will try to find someone next time, even if it's my mum who I know will likely blurt things out if she sees me being picked on :/ xx

Hi Wendy

Thank you so much for your post Yes I agree it is difficult for non sufferers to comprehend what the pain is like, and the subsequent effect it has upon everything else, including your work/ability to work and your mental state. Like you I have had to find my own employment that works for me because no employer would/will employ me. I became self employed in my mid twenties and have had no employer since. I have had times when I've done really well for myself financially, but ever since my thirties, my condition has taken over and wrecked everything. I don't have a family of my own and that's a hard thing to come to terms with.

I'm amazed that despite all this, there are still people who think I'm lying about my condition or the affect it's had upon my life. Also I've never applied for PIP, didn't apply for many years after my diagnosis, because I don't even like talking about my condition and have masked everything for decades because this is the only option we're given. Get on with it, it can't be that bad.

That's a very interesting point you made about women being unsympathetic. At school whenever I went to the medical bay the nurse there grimaced, told me I was exaggerating and to get back to class. Also the only GPs I've had who have shown some understanding/empathy have been male. The GP who decided to cancel my painkiller prescription - which I had restored after my surgery - was female. I didn't think about the gender issue before but I suspect you're right.

Yes I'm not looking forward to the menopause :/ But thank you for sharing your experience, I really appreciate it

M xx

Hi LL26,

Thank you Yes I will try to persist. The Courts got my letter last Thursday so I should get everything by the end of this week or early next depending on how long they usually take. I won't be able to do anything at all for a while due to my illness but as soon as I can, I will listen to the audio. I really hope they send it to me! It's the only evidence I have of the panel's cutting remarks, me being very distressed, and how long it went on for, etc.

Have you had any cases where the Courts haven't sent the audio recording?

Also I forgot to say this before, but the GP deliberately minimised my diagnosis from my 'expert level' consultant. She read out that he found 'small patches of endo', but she failed to read out that he also found several lesions on the left side of my abdomen. Also this diagnosis was in 2018 and there has not been any surgery/intervention since and endo only grows/gets bigger. Her failure to read out the whole diagnosis and failure to note the length of time between the diagnosis and my PIP application will all be on the audio recording.

Is this another point I can raise about it not being a fair trial/appeal point? I now realise the GP was deliberately trying to minimise my condition or the pain it must be causing. Obviously I will wait to see their notes but I can't see any other reason why she would have ignored half of what the consultant wrote and the fact the diagnosis was in 2018. Any non biased/normal GP would have simply read the whole sentence out, and also noted the diagnosis was given nearly 6 years ago. She didn't ask if I'd had any surgery since 2018 either. It was like she didn't care/didn't want to know. Also there is the bit where she assumed why I was given a certain medication and told the disability guy, without bothering to ask me, and I had to intervene and tell her she was not entirely right. That will be on the audio.

Also - as I was not asked this I couldn't say it - but if she had asked if the small patches of endo were causing a lot of pain, I would have told her yes, but I also had a separate surgery in 2012 where I had 1cm polyps, I think I had 2 of them, and the pain they caused was absolutely excruciating. I felt like I was going to die it was so bad and all my GP could prescribe was the pill to stop my period (again no stronger pain relief prescribed). I didn't get my medical records from my GP to supply evidence of that before but I could try to get this now, especially if there have been some 'disbelieving' comments made on their report. Is it too late to supply this? It is still something that occurred before my PIP application.

Will I need to do another transcript of the hearing? I really hope not, the last one took months. I can do as you suggest though and note times when x or y happened at the Tribunal. Yes I was asked the same question several times by different panel members. The disability guy was also very pushy as he kept asking a succession of questions about mixing with other people, when I had already told him I could not/did not. I feel that was unnecessary and will hopefully prove their attitude was off.

Also - I was barely asked about my condition limiting tasks/typical PIP questions. Instead there seemed to be a very heavy emphasis on: Why didn't you apply for ESA? Why didn't you apply for PIP sooner? What are you living on? There were some questions about what work I did but it was obvious they were just trying to show I had no problems mixing/engaging with people face to face, which again they failed on.

They also didn't ask the DWP woman anything. Aren't non biased panels meant to ask the DWP why they chose x instead of y, or why they failed to do x, y or z in their assessment?

Very happy to hear I can complain about them! I'm happier about this than about getting their decision set aside. I think it's outrageous behaviour and they shouldn't be allowed to continue in this way/acting as a panel. They clearly enjoy bullying claimants for no purpose (what was the purpose of a 2 hour hearing with repeat questions if the award was not changed at all?) and I hope my complaint means they'll be stopped from behaving in this appalling manner in future.

I would feel better if I knew I was going to get a fresh panel, however is it possible to ask for a decision to be made on the papers instead? Simply because I find it really hard to talk about my condition without becoming incredibly distressed? Also I don't believe I'll suddenly get a more sympathetic panel, unless it is in a different city/location which I'm willing to opt for. Can I say I'd rather have a fresh panel in a different location, or ask for a decision to be made on the papers? Or if I get a fresh panel, are they likely to be non local to my city/region? I would be happy with that, too.

Thank you for all your help and guidance with this, I really appreciate it.

Thank you LL26, you are a star *
I'm conscious of taking up too much of your time at this stage, however I have one last question. I have no idea if I need to apply for a set aside now, as the instructions say I need to apply within the first month of the Tribunal decision - but how can you know the reasons for a set aside without the WSoR as you said?

The para says: "If you think the Tribunal's decision is wrong, you can:
- Ask for it to be corrected
- Apply for a statement of reasons, and then appeal the Tribunal's decision
- Apply for the decision to be set aside

Please bear in mind that there is a time limit of 1 month from the date of the decision to apply for a statement of reasons or setting aside. Once you receive your statement of reasons, you have a further 1 month to apply for permission to appeal. You may still be able to apply outside of that time limit but you will need to ask for the time limit to be extended and explain why.

So - do I write to the Courts again by 1 month after the date of my hearing (8 April) and say I want to apply to set aside, however I don't yet know the grounds as I want the statement of reasons first, and I will need the 1 month deadline to set aside to be extended to at least 2 months from the date I receive the WSoR and Record of Proceedings as already requested due to my medical condition restricting my ability to work?
Or do I say I want to set aside because I don't believe I had a fair trial/hearing, but I need the deadline to be extended as per the above so I can get the WSoR and outline the reasons/evidence in full then, etc?

What a palaver! Why on earth can't they make this more straightforward?

Also, if anyone reading this fancies a laugh, I came across a very interesting brand new recruitment webinar for disability expert panel members for benefit tribunals. Link here The disability guy appears from 11 minutes to 20 minutes and he says to be a successful disability expert panel member, you need to be:
- Kind (!)
- Empathetic (!)
- Open minded (!)
- Assertive

Why then, are they recruiting disability experts who are nasty, closed minded and rude?