Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment

Thanks Wendy, I'm sure they will

Hi BIS

Thank you, really appreciate your support

Yes, I'm not surprised at the outcome but it has upset me, to see what they've written. Yes I agree with you, it definitely confirms that they didn't believe me. I'm sure everyone in my position says this but they seemed determined to take against me from the start and I've no idea why, and yes, they were largely hostile. The first question the judge asked was: "I'd just like to confirm there has never been any application for carer's allowance?" I found this surprising and an odd question to ask as I've never made an application for this and the only reason why I mentioned this in my complaint letter to the DWP - I believe this is where the panel saw it and leapt upon it - was because the DWP assessor had accused me of 'caring for my mum' in the PA4, which I made clear I didn't and only helped her with tasks when I was able to/better. My transcript proved this. Initially when I heard the judge say this, I thought, oh hopefully they're on my side, but later in the interrogation, he asked why I hadn't made any application for ESA, why I hadn't claimed PIP before now and then also that question about what I was living on! I mean, it's obvious they think I'm some kind of benefit cheat or have some sort of hidden agenda although God knows what that is.

I know initially I said I was tempted to fight this, but it's upset me to see what they've written and I can't see the point anymore. Nobody believes me no matter what I say, and they seem determined to believe I'm a liar or a fraud. This is the second time I've been put through a 2 hour ordeal where nobody has listened to what I've said. I was going to call my GP and put him on the spot regarding my medication but I don't think there's anything stronger available? And also why should I do that, just to jump through another hoop for this blasted PIP claim? Even if I do by some miracle get something stronger - which I doubt I will because no GP has ever offered to prescribe me a stronger painkiller than I already have and believe me I've told past GPs I thought I was going to die from the pain and being repeatedly violently sick/dry retching - I'm sure there will still be a Godawful judge at the end who's determined not to believe a word I'm saying. And even if I do finally get the referral to the endo clinic my GP promised me months ago, I still won't be believed. So really, what's the point?

And yes, the phrase 'help-seeking behaviour' is patronising and nasty. They were determined NOT to believe I had any difficulties socialising or any form of depression or anxiety, despite making it clear in my application I do and despite the fact that I was a ball of tears pretty much throughout. The disability guy was almost laughing in disbelief when I said I didn't socialise as I had little desire to even when I was better, he asked if any relatives come round and no they largely don't but apparently this must be a lie, he asked if I ever go out to restaurants and I said no (again true as I have little appetite too but he clearly thought otherwise), he asked if I'd celebrated my birthday by going out, again no as it only reminds me of how rubbish my life is, but he obviously thought I was lying. They were obsessed with asking me why I often went out with my mum, I feel this was calculated to embarrass me.

I really think they saw it as sport. The disability guy was almost laughing, certainly smiling when he interrupted me and said: "You don't come across as shy! You seem very confident." And this, when I had amassed a collection of tissues on the table in front of me.

As I've said in a previous post I find it impossible to talk about what my life is like now without crying. So, I don't want to embarrass and humiliate myself even further only not to be believed. I will just have to accept the basic award although it really upsets me to effectively be called a liar and degraded for 2 hours in front of a room full of strangers, when they obviously didn't want to grant me anything from the start.

How on earth is anyone expected to be able to think and answer coherently when they're in such a state? I'm really angry that there's nowhere I can report this panel for their needless bullying. At no point did they stop to allow me to compose myself, at no point did they offer any reassuring or comforting words, they failed to stop the DWP woman from asking questions about information that wasn't in the bundle - surely any decent judge would have stepped in to at least ask what on earth she was doing and what she was referring to because she was on a laptop that nobody else could see?! - and they clearly didn't give a rat's behind about me or my welfare.

I sent the letter off yesterday to ask for the statement of reasons and audio recording - they did say we were being recorded - but I honestly don't know if I've got the strength to even listen to the recording itself. It will upset me, hearing myself be so distressed, and I've already said I found it hard to be consistent or give consistent answers all the time as towards the end I just wanted to get out of there. I know I was being consistent at the start and at times, but in all honesty, if they were determined not to believe me, there's nothing I could say and even less I could do, to convince them otherwise, so I effectively gave up even trying to answer as I wanted to in the end.

But I guess this is what they wanted. So now they will be able to say I wasn't consistent. But how could I or anyone be consistent in these circumstances? If this is what happens usually then it's a disgrace. People who say the panel isn't there to catch you out or ask trick questions clearly haven't witnessed a panel like the one I had.

Sorry for the long post but I don't know what else to say

Also apparently if a Tribunal grants an award, then you have to re apply for PIP at the end of your current award? Just seems little point in any of this if everyone seems determined not to believe you and there's no guarantee any other judge will listen, so it all seems a huge waste of effort as well. I will also need some kind of support worker to help identify points of law if I want to take this further but I don't have anyone and doubt there's anyone decent locally. I approached a local centre last year but the girl I spoke to also seemed disbelieving and a bit useless in my opinion. She didn't seem to know or offer much knowledge when I met her. And yes I broke down in front of her as well.

Oh MDBond, I am fighting back tears myself after reading this latest post from you.
Please, you must do what is best for your own health and self respect. But please God you can one day find support from an organisation or person, who can accompany you to any hearing you choose to instigate, and step in to defend you, if, God forfend, anyone tries to treat you badly again.
In the meantime, remember that the BBC used to reckon for every letter they get there were ten listeners who had that opinion. On the same principle, for every one of us who has posted to support you, there ARE hordes of friendly, fellow suffering B&W readers sending you sympathy and virtual support. Please take strength from this,
Denby

Hi MDBond,

I was also not believed at my tribunal, one descriptor the GP denied that one of my symptoms had anything to do with one of my illnesses. My representative was furious about that as he had done his own research and knew that was incorrect. There were several other descriptors that they tried to minimise and catch me out on or thats how it felt
. I know I won but there was not much joy in it initially because of the whole humiliating sorry experience. I think you should give yourself some time and see how you feel in a week or 2. You don't have to decide right now and you need the statement of reasons to see if there room for you to argue there has been an error in law. And remember that those of us who have read your posts believe you. Just be kind to yourself and give yourself some time.

Wishing you all the best,

Gaddy

Thank you Denby, sorry, don't want to needlessly upset anyone on here especially anyone being supportive and kind I really do appreciate the support. I don't know, I'm just really up and down at the moment about this and my sleep is the same. Yes I am trying to keep myself well mentally. I went swimming yesterday and to pilates today and now feel a bit better. It's the first time I've done something 'normal' and gone outside for me in ages.
I'm hoping I find some assistance in real life too, as I will need it if I go for the upper tribunal. Fingers crossed!