Tribunal & Legal Challenges - Flawed PIP Assessment

Hi Gaddy,

Thank you for sharing this, and again for your support. Yes the words humiliating and sorry are apt. Interesting, the GPs seem determined not to believe us. The GP seemed determined to doubt whatever I said, despite having a diagnosis in front of her, which she deliberately minimised or only read half of. I hope this will be an appeal point. Anyway, my diagnosis is from one of the experts in women's gynaecology in the UK. His father was the late Queen Elizabeth II's gynaecologist. How can this random Tribunal panel member say she has more expert knowledge than the consultant who diagnosed me, and he did so totally unintentionally? I didn't go to him for a diagnosis, he operated on me and also found I had endo. I can't help thinking there may be a bit of professional envy going on in my case, and probably some amazement at how a pleb like me managed to get such a prestigious consultant to operate on me too.

You are fortunate that you had a representative. I probably should have made much more effort to find one or at least be totally sure that I couldn't get one. You did the right thing getting one anyway, I'm sure if I'd had a good one, then I wouldn't have had such an awful experience. The only one I found seemed disinterested and useless so I thought it would be better to do it myself.

I genuinely think these panel members are just a collection of random nobodies who enjoy exercising a bit of power over us. I wish there was some way for us to feedback about them or complain, because quite frankly their behaviour is a disgrace.

Hi LL26,

Thanks so much for all this info, you're great
I'm oscillating between feeling like poo/what's the point, etc and feeling that I may as well pursue this to the bitter end!

Yes, there are already some things that I know were ignored or must have been ignored, or minimised, and there's the bit at the end where I was effectively told or the judge agreed I should get the full 12 points for moving around, but obviously this didn't happen as my award was not changed. It will be very interesting to see if/how they justify that, after effectively agreeing I should get it?!

I was definitely consistent on and should have got:

8 points for cooking. I cannot cook a meal for the majority of the month, because I cannot even walk to the kitchen without risk of injury, extreme pain, I cannot walk upright or keep myself upright as I'm in constant agony. If I tried to cook a meal, I would have to abandon it because of the pain/risk of injury to myself. After the pain I have exhaustion/fatigue and depression so I do not have the energy or motivation to cook a meal. I cannot cook a meal at all for the majority of each month, well over 50% of days.

The disability guy asked me about this specifically and I remember effectively snapping at him because this was towards the end of the second part and I was really peed off by this stage and his laughing etc. He asked me when I cook a meal, and I bluntly said: "What do you define as a meal? The most I make for myself when I am well enough to do so on the minority of days (8-10) is a slice of toast or I get some cereal. I can't remember the last time I cooked a meal, I'm either too exhausted or too depressed to find the energy to do that."

He did not answer. But yet there is no points award for this at all, it is still zero. So he must have ignored what I said, and also ignored everything I said in my submission about this. I'm fairly sure there is nothing I said to contradict or undermine this, I know I live on snack food or barely/can't eat, so there is nothing to contradict.

That's 8 points, added to my existing 8 for daily living - that should have got me an enhanced award, surely?!

Also, being honest, the panel barely asked me anything to do with my condition and how I managed certain tasks. I was asked about dressing by the GP. I think she said: "So if you didn't have to dress to come here today, what would you be wearing?" Yet, why did she ask about this, when the points regarding dressing were not disputed, and they have said that in their pithy statement? Timewasting or trying to grind me down for the sake of it?

I genuinely find it odd how they haven't changed the award at all. I feel like they had decided they were going to refuse it at the outset, tried to find reasons to refuse it when I was in front of them, got a bit annoyed at me cos I wasn't the fraud/liar they thought I'd be as I was broadly sticking to my submission info, but then decided to reject my appeal because they were determined to do that from the start, and they still thought I was a liar.

The manner of the Tribunal I can clearly say a lot about!

1. Rude/judgemental. The disability guy cut me off mid answer to tell me I wasn't shy and I was confident. He was almost laughing/definitely smiling sarcastically when I told him I was too depressed to go out/socialise.

2. Hostile/irritated/angry - how can I prove this? All I can mention are facial expressions which aren't really evidence. The GP rolled her eyes and puffed out her cheeks in anger at one point. This was when someone else was asking me questions but she just looked immensely cross and I saw her staring at me, then she looked at the DWP woman when she saw me looking at her.

3. I was immensely distressed/crying but they never offered me a break, gave me any reassurance or showed any empathy, kindness or compassion. I know you said did they refuse me a break - well I didn't know/think I could ask for one? Nobody told me I could, none of the panel said I could. The audio will back me up. Will this get me anywhere?

Re 'help seeking behaviour' - what do you mean when you say I should start with this? Yes I too would like to know what they mean by it. But if they've explained what they mean, then what? Does it automatically prove they're being unprofessional/nasty?

Re my medication - can they really use this as a reason for refusal? I explained to them I'd never been offered anything else or anything stronger in my whole life. I told my GP I couldn't cope and he just said he would refer me to the endo clinic. At no point did he suggest reviewing my medication. I told them most of this. So how can they use this as a reason to turn me down? I'm not in charge of what I get prescribed, I never have been. I find this baffling. I think it's true of most women with my condition that we simply get fobbed off or ignored. That's my experience.

Will a letter from my GP help to corroborate that he knows I'm struggling but never bothered to prescribe other medication and why he didn't? I mean will this help with any upper tribunal appeal?

Also could you kindly outline the pros and cons of taking this to the upper tribunal, so I can give it some proper consideration over the next week or so. I'm guessing I can't file a new PIP appeal now, as I have a basic award already?
Will I have to attend the upper tribunal in person?
Do I have a month to file any upper tribunal case? Sadly for me my condition means a month is not a month, it is just over a week or so when I will be able to do any work on this. Could they extend the deadline a bit in this case?
I will try to find a representative in the meantime. I take it LL26 that you cannot act as a representative? It's just you mentioned having clients on a previous post.

Many thanks for your help and guidance. I will try to wade through the information when it arrives

Oh please don't feel sorry for upsetting me. I only just discovered from my wonderful NHS Autism assessor [yes, at last, confirmed!!!] that some people with autism are in fact hyper-empathetic , far from being like insensitive robots as per awful stereotypes. Now I know why I always cry at certain songs etc.
Even if you don't find any 'expert' a good friend can go with you, anyone you trust really. If nothing else, if it does feel antagonistic, it's 3:2 instead of 3:1

Hi there

Just logged on after a few days away. I’m so sorry to hear that your appeal wasn’t successful. Let us know how you decide to proceed…all the best
Anji

Hello MDBond,

I think it's impossible for anyone who hasn't experienced the misery of endometriosis to understand the excruciating pain it causes, never mind all the other debilitating symptoms. I suffered from this for over forty years, although for half of that time I didn't know what was causing all my symptoms - until very recently, I believe, the only way to have the diagnosis confirmed was through surgery, so, like you, I found out almost by accident. Nobody can understand how much this condition affects your whole life unless they have experienced it. In particular, you need a sympathetic employer, as most don't see "period problems" as a reason to take time off work. (For many years now, I have worked part-time in my husband's business, which has helped a lot.) Women especially tend to be unsympathetic - I suspect the fact that you had a female doctor on your tribunal panel did not help your case.

My problems became more severe during the peri-menopause (I'll spare you the details!) but the good news is that, since the menopause, most of my symptoms have slowly improved and, obviously, some have disappeared altogether. Unfortunately, it's a long time to wait and not everyone sees much improvement, I know.

However, I do feel better now than when I was younger and I just wanted to let you know that, hopefully, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do next.

Best wishes,

Wendy