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Massive response to PIP vouchers Green Paper consultation

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There has been a massive response to the Modernising Support Green Paper, Stephen Timms, the DWP minister for disability has revealed.  And whilst the government is still not offering any certainty that the proposal to replace PIP cash payments with vouchers will be dropped, they do seem to be distancing themselves from the Conservative’s proposals.

Timms was answering a question on behalf of the secretary of state for Work and Pensions from Labour MP Cat Smith:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, when she plans to publish her Department's response to the consultation entitled Modernising support for independent living: the health and disability green paper, published in April 2024.”

Timms replied:

“The consultation on the Modernising Support Green Paper closed on Monday 22 July. Over 16,000 responses have been received and we will review these responses.

“The proposals in this Green Paper were developed by the previous government. We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.”

The number of responses is more than ten times higher than were given to the DWP consultation on changes to the work capability assessment, which was launched in September 2023.  That consultation received 1,348 replies.

It is likely that the vast majority of responses will have been negative in relation to most of the proposals for changes to PIP.  It is encouraging to learn that so many people took the trouble to respond and it will have left the government in no doubt about the size of the fight they will have on their hands if they try to push through any of the more controversial ideas in the Green Paper  

The form of words used by Timms “We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.” is identical to that used by Baroness Sherlock in the House of Lords last week.

Whilst it lacks any certainty, the phrase does suggest that Labour are planning to disown most of what the Conservatives have proposed.

Benefits and Work readers, who we know responded in large numbers to the Green Paper, can congratulate themselves on having spoken out so powerfully on behalf of the many PIP claimants who found the consultation too overwhelming to reply to.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Citizen
    · 3 months ago
    Lol, if they are going after pensioners this early then they will hammer the disabled, it is of course our fault(disabled folks) that the economy is in such a bad state just like back in 2008 when fraudulent benefit claims caused the sub prime market crisis, Labour hate disabled people just as much as the Tories and they will show it buy lowering our standard of living even further that they have before, this is a warning shot of just how nasty they really are.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Citizen
      · 3 months ago
      @Neal Lol, you remember how many people opposed the Iraqi war?

      I have been in the system for 15 plus years and have encountered liar after liar, when complaining about the liars the liars got to investigate themselves and find themselves to not be at fault.

      The political classes are not elected they are selected, I knew this as a child so as an adult the fallacy that voting will make a blind bit of difference is quite honestly laughable, voter have zero power and if it made even a slight bit of difference you would simply not be allowed to do it, the whole stinking pile of excrement is exactly what it smells like it is. 

      As for disabled people, you know the ones that have been battered and gaslighted by the DWP/ATOS/MAXIMUS/CRAPITA for at least the last 15 years have absolutely no chance of uniting and putting pressure on those in power, we have no voice, we have no choice, in fact if any, even able bodied people had any choice we would not be seeing mass immigration, we would not be giving away billions on foreign aid and funding programs that encourage children with gender dysphoria to mutilate themselves, no of these hot political potatoes are a choice that can be un-chosen by voting.

      The political classes do not fear anything, they are protected and they damn well know it, I am sorry but the only thing we really have is the illusion of choice, the choice of left or right, that is not a choice.

      You see, there is only one conclusion to come to when the government treats it's most vulnerable(disabled people) the way it has done for the last 15 years is that it is not just the DWP that are liars but that they are all liars, you can't have just a small minority that can get away with breaking the law in a fair and just system, if one org can do it with absolutely no consequence then it means that the whole system is corrupt to the core, we live in a top down society and the top is rotten to the core and thus so are it's subsidiaries.

      Sorry for the rant, I am just a wee bit bitter, the damage done by years of gaslighting and lies have done an immense amount of irreparable damage to the very core of my being, I know that I am not alone, I know that all of us that has scored nil pois in a fixed assessment only to get it overturned on appeal over and over again feel exactly the same as I do.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Grace Larder
      · 3 months ago
      @Neal Absolutely they’ll go after us.  They’re already going after the education system which is about to go into utter disarray.  For anyone who thinks taxing private school fees is a positive idea, look at Greece 2015. Disaster for all.  They seem to want to prove points and go after the most vulnerable in society
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Neal
      · 3 months ago
      @Citizen Both the labour and the conservative  fear the elections, more than three million disabled people   and other millions of retired people  in the voting balance will create a big gap against or for this or that. Therefore, the disabled and retiree should not be satisfied with talking and complaining, this is good, but it is better for everyone concerned, especially those with low incomes, to pressure against these truly unjust measures against us. This requires working together and firmly showing our rejection of these measures. Pensioners and disabled people by the millions, all of them adults can vote. Believe me, the gvt will back down, if I do not say about everything, but about the most important points.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    diceman24
    · 3 months ago
    seems after all there might b a little silver lining with changing pip to vouchers after all motorablilty cars are a massive charity and a massive business for the government even if they did bring in voucher scheme surely the gove and motorablilty charity would take vouchers if you get pip high rate this would be easy to set up 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Maria Nelson
      · 3 months ago
      @Paula I’m in that situation. I live in a village with 1 bus route that often is late and no shows. I get stressed about appointments and I’m living in fear of sanctions coming from the bus situation also the walk to the job centre is quite long. 6.8miles from my home 1 way. I get stressed about being late so I get taxis to the appointments then use my bus pass to get back, taxis range between £18-£23 one way. I don’t get mobility because I can walk but I walk on the flat ok just not hills and loads of stairs. Social services is helping me re interviewing PAs and I’m paying taxis whenever an interview happens. I’m trying to take the direct payment route but I need warm as I get frustrated a lot. I use my pip to cover those and made a ninja kitchen to put everything bench height. My money goes on disability an occasional treat I use some extra electric for a bath seat. Already but shouldn’t disabled people be able to afford a reasonable quality of life. It’s not our fault for these disabilities. I don’t look disabled because I stim and I look younger than my age as I rarely smoke or drink
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      · 3 months ago
      @diceman24 I don't think the motability scheme as pip is paid directly to the dealership and not into the claimants bank. However, I think the criteria for getting a car will be tightened and I think it will probably be harder to get one for mental health reasons, except in the most severe of cases.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @diceman24 Hows it going to work for claimants receiving PIP high rate on daily living & low rate mobility.  They are not on the motorability scheme, most reply on family, friends, taxis to get them around.

      Guess they will all end up never being able to leave their homes because vouchers restrict them.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Paula
      · 3 months ago
      @diceman24 The mobility component of PIP isn't just about vehicles. Many disabled people can't drive but are unable to manage even familiar journeys on their own on foot. They are much bigger users of taxis and public transport. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Jasmine19
      · 3 months ago
      @diceman24 What if they means test PIP.  Many disabled workers will be hit and that will impact on motorbility and mobility businesses.  Many disabled workers won’t be able to continue to work.   

      What if you have a partner in full time work or a small medical retirement pension.   That would cause a lot of poverty 


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Neal
    · 3 months ago
    It is known that when the Conservative Party is in power, it will protect the rich and pluck the feathers of poor people. But I cannot understand that the Labour Party, which is supposed to protect the poor society, will also, when it comes to power, pluck the feathers of the poor class, if they have any feathers left.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    diceman24
    · 3 months ago
    they have only 16000  responses and 3.6 million claiming pip benefit where is everyone on this serious matter 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lori
      · 3 months ago
      @diceman24 Probably sunning themselves on holiday, taking a well deserved break from their aids, and gurning at the prospect of the looming vouchers
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      DizzyDaisyMat
      · 3 months ago
      @diceman24 For those who suffer with mental health issues it can often be very difficult to put into words how such changes would affect them.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    (No) hope
    · 3 months ago
    I’ve just watched hunt and reeves slugging it out in parliament.   Is this what it has come to? And then they will claim that they know best for us. Patronising bstards. Who knows if there is even a financial black hole, or just part of a contrived agenda to inflict future financial pain on everyone, everyone except them that is
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @(No) hope There was no blackhole when tories were in power.  Labours now saying different.  The blackhole in the economy obviously seems in labour mind to be us.  So their ulternative is to make us more poorer.

      Which will put immense pressure onto the already collapsed NHS, costing more money.  And if that blackhole get filled in. Then labour will find an even bigger blackhole that needs filling in.


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    · 3 months ago
    Fingers crossed pip payments continue and not voucher as voucher won’t work  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Damion
    · 3 months ago
    I think the negative comments have snowballed on this site.This green paper was put there to cause trouble as they knew (tories)knew they wouldn’t be around to implement it.But a few people put panicky and before you know it it’s a stampede .The truth is nobody knows what will happen, We need to deal with it when we find out,and if we need to fight we will together.whatever we all have difficulties with physically and mental health problems.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    (No) hope
    · 3 months ago
    16000 responses.. not sure if I should be joyful about this or ask where was everybody?. I thought there were millions of us?Is this a powerful enough response? I have my doubts 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    lesley
    · 3 months ago
    "In the winter of 2011-12, the benefit cost the UK Government £2,100,000,000 and was paid out to 12,700,000 people. It was criticised by Paul Burston (former care services minister) in 2013 for its lack of targeting, Burstow saying that "80% of older people do not require (the benefit)" and proposing that it be only given to pensioners on pension credit which he said would save £1.5 bn a year.  He suggested tht the savings be used to help implement the finding of the Dilnot Commission into social care.  However, in 2013 about 1 million of 3 million eligible people did not claim pension credit"
    From "Winter Fuel Payment" Wikipedia

    So nothing new here.  There are still lots of eligible pensioners for pension credit who do not claim. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Sean
    · 3 months ago
    They'll just do it anyway and blame the last lot.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    · 3 months ago
    Keep pip as money only 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    PIP Vouchers
    · 3 months ago
    Rachel coming up next budget in October will scrap PIP, cut UC welfare benefits £12.9bn......WATCH THIS SPACE
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Kevin9320
    · 3 months ago
    It might not be relevant to most on here, but I notice Reeves made winter fuel payments means-tested. Could she/they make PIP means-tested too?

    My feeling is there will be an onslaught on mental health claimants of working age. And stricter criteria for new PIP applicants. Beyond that I shudder to think what they are about to unveil 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @Kevin9320 Yep, and AA, and at the deaf state pensions too, especially if more black holes keep appearing.  Rather than go after the trillionaire tax evaders and such alike.  The wlefare is an easier approach to target.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Jon
    · 3 months ago
    We are very lucky to receive the benefits we receive from the government because if we lived in America the richest country in the world most of us would receive nothing
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    HumanRights123
    · 3 months ago
    Here's something recently posted on the UK government website.

    Text from HM Treasury policy paper: Fixing the foundations: public spending audit 2024-25

    "3.2 Immediate savings

    The government is taking immediate action to manage the pressures revealed in the audit. These total £5.5 billion in 2024-25 and £8.1 billion in 2025-26, and include:

    Targeting Winter Fuel Payments. Winter Fuel Payments will be targeted from winter 2024-25 at households in England and Wales with someone aged over State Pension age receiving Pension Credit, Universal Credit, Income Support, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance and income-related Employment and Support Allowance. They will continue to be worth £200 for eligible households, or £300 for eligible households with someone aged over 80. This will better target support for heating costs at those who need it, while all pensioners will benefit from the government’s commitment to maintain the triple lock for the basic and new State Pension in this Parliament. Winter Fuel Payments are devolved in Scotland and Northern Ireland."

    " 4.4 Reforming the public sector and welfare system

    The government will also carry out an urgent programme of work to ensure welfare spending is sustainable, including by supporting people into work. The Work and Pensions Secretary will also assess levels of fraud and error in the welfare system, and consider how to bring that down ahead of the Budget."
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    blandie
    · 3 months ago
    I found it interesting that Rishi admitted calling the election early was because he was advised 135,000 households each month were coming to the end of a lower fixed rate mortgage deal and if he waited that could be as many as over 800,000 potentially lost votes. Did he not stop to think that if 3.5M people receive PIP each of those people might have 1 or 2 people caring for them and another one or two family and friends caring about their welfare making 3.5 x say 4 = 14 million unhappy voters. Just my thought.
    I do not believe PIP will be vouchers but I do believe gradual changes might be made over years.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Jord
    · 3 months ago
    Welfare cuts to come in october going by the what the chancellor said today
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Aw
    · 3 months ago
    Well today they have announced they are effectively means testing fuel payments for pensioners and scrapping plans to cap adult care costs. Have to say it doesn't look good. Also the news that they are planning a crackdown on "unacceptable levels of welfare fraud" I thought it had been proven that there was so little disability benefit fraud that it was basically zero? Troubling language to say the least.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Bud
    · 3 months ago
    I posted this on the other thread too.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Cat
      · 3 months ago
      @Bud I would like to say seeing your Apple link, I thought was an instant spam post. Maybe add more context other than 

      " I posted this on the other thread too " 

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Jas
    · 3 months ago
    It seems the black hole won't see them spending on new costly systems. As for benefits, we Will have to wait until October and if it's all about saving further cuts to pensioners and the disabled are going to be on the cards. Winter fuel is already gone for pensioners, who are not claiming pension credit. I see tough times coming for those relying on the welfare state 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      · 3 months ago
      @Jas She did say she has asked all Government departments to make cuts of £3 billion each, this will include DWP 

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