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Massive response to PIP vouchers Green Paper consultation

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There has been a massive response to the Modernising Support Green Paper, Stephen Timms, the DWP minister for disability has revealed.  And whilst the government is still not offering any certainty that the proposal to replace PIP cash payments with vouchers will be dropped, they do seem to be distancing themselves from the Conservative’s proposals.

Timms was answering a question on behalf of the secretary of state for Work and Pensions from Labour MP Cat Smith:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, when she plans to publish her Department's response to the consultation entitled Modernising support for independent living: the health and disability green paper, published in April 2024.”

Timms replied:

“The consultation on the Modernising Support Green Paper closed on Monday 22 July. Over 16,000 responses have been received and we will review these responses.

“The proposals in this Green Paper were developed by the previous government. We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.”

The number of responses is more than ten times higher than were given to the DWP consultation on changes to the work capability assessment, which was launched in September 2023.  That consultation received 1,348 replies.

It is likely that the vast majority of responses will have been negative in relation to most of the proposals for changes to PIP.  It is encouraging to learn that so many people took the trouble to respond and it will have left the government in no doubt about the size of the fight they will have on their hands if they try to push through any of the more controversial ideas in the Green Paper  

The form of words used by Timms “We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.” is identical to that used by Baroness Sherlock in the House of Lords last week.

Whilst it lacks any certainty, the phrase does suggest that Labour are planning to disown most of what the Conservatives have proposed.

Benefits and Work readers, who we know responded in large numbers to the Green Paper, can congratulate themselves on having spoken out so powerfully on behalf of the many PIP claimants who found the consultation too overwhelming to reply to.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M
    · 3 months ago
    Prior to the election I send an email to an number of Labour MPs including the Deputy Leader, Liz Kendall and more left to the party MPs such as Diane Abott.

    I asked if Labour were to be successful following the general election would they means test PIP. I  didn't receive an response from anyone. 

    It is clear that Labour our now using now to state that after reviewing the country's books its worse that they thought it was and using this to break vague manifesto pledges.

    What needs to be done is everyone needs to email their Labour MPs and explain that if PIP is to be means tested that you will not be voting Labour again 

    After all they stated future disability policy would be done in conjunction with disability groups. No disability group I know is in favour of means testing 

    Email now folks 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Fox
    · 3 months ago
    it dosn't work in the USA, so why the hell do they want to bring it here.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      · 3 months ago
      @Fox In the USA all disability benefits are paid in cash, not vouchers. Their disability benefits are quite generous, if you have enough work credits (national insurance contributions). They are very difficult to qualify for though.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    CP
    · 3 months ago
    Goodness knows what the government has planned. I'm going to tune out from it all until October. We will hear then from the horse's mouth so to speak on what changes there is going to be. It's out of our hands so to speak and speculating only causes anxiety.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      claresturgeon
      · 3 months ago
      @dgc True. I just feel it's out of our hands now. Until they announce the cold hard facts I'm doing my best and trying not to get swept away with all the speculation.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      dgc
      · 3 months ago
      @CP The problem for us is that it may be the horse's mouth but is it trying to make an ass of us or perhaps the mouth belongs to an ass because the government are not listening or do not want to listen, as elsewhere they just want to punish us weak and poor, and raid our bank accounts. It looks good for the government throwing our money around the world. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Nightcity
      · 3 months ago
      @CP And even then it will follow a very slow process and have charities and activists etc on it.

      This won't be a worry no matter what is announced for a few years.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Joe
    · 3 months ago
    well reeves has taken up  were gordon (85p) brown  started on pensioners which lost them the 2010 election.
    is she a conservative trojan in disguise?  

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      · 3 months ago
      @Joe They completely wrecked the economy, like every Labour government before them.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    lesley
    · 3 months ago
    I doubt that PIP will be means tested.  Just think? Then all those on a means tested P.I.P. will also be eligible for the Winter Fuel Allowance which Rachel Reeves has just announce will only be for people on means tested benefits. %-( don't make no sense to me.  All gobbledy gook and a paradox) Said Alice! Weirder and weirder!
    Anyway it's going to take a while to sort it all out. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    JJ
    · 3 months ago
    The means test scenario seems like one brought up many times here, another theory was that there will be another PIP tier. 

    Liz Kendall is doing this DWP reform in Autumn, Rachel Reeves' budget is on October 30th, it's best not to hyperbole things until if or when they happen.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      True
      · 3 months ago
      @JJ I just wish they would tell people and get it over with this has been going on for months because of the Tories people are becoming even  sicker with worry .
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      David
      · 3 months ago
      @JJ Thanks for the update 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Stewart Edwards
    · 3 months ago
    Some thoughts…

    I have incurable cancer, osteoarthritis and some other stuff. My wife is disabled and has suffered depression and anxiety for 25 years, so I write this with some experience.


    1. Winter Fuel Payment. Only going to those on benefits. So some will lose out (sadly including some marginal cases no doubt). But equally some pensioners are fairly wealthy and don’t need it. Reeves was also clear that Councils etc should work to get everyone on Pension Credit who is entitled to it. So it’s really a case of trying to help poor pensioners.

    2. Work. “Those who can work should work.” Can’t really argue with that. So it’s a question of whether the DWP think you can work or not. I struggle to believe that Labour will be harsher than the Tories here. Integration of local health services, and reducing hospital waiting lists, will in time cure many, (but obviously nowhere near all) who can then work. Getting rid of exploitative zero hour contracts will also help people gain job security again. We also know that Labour understands that sanctions don’t work (though have I think so far only talked about the longest sanctions).

    Give Labour a chance. They are only three weeks in and have already begun to sort the NHS by eliminating the strikes that make waiting lists longer. It also seems that their view of job centres being places of “work not welfare” are going to be more positively supportive and solution based, than the Tory’s you are a minute late so no money for you for weeks/months. If you can work, but don’t want to, yes you will likely have problems (as you do just now), if you want to work you are likely to find better support and solutions, but if you genuinely can’t work, that is a fact that there is no getting around, whatever government is in power.

    Change can be terrifying, I know this. I see it in my wife. But unless we accept that change happens, we will remain terrified. Would you rather that the Tories remained in power and ploughed on with their policies?

    Give Labour a chance. They deserve that. They after all won a democratic election. Just three weeks ago.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Scrounger
      · 3 months ago
      @Matt If we didn't have such a vociferously right-wing media that loves bashing people on welfare I doubt we'd have these policies now. None of it makes any sense. They can find money to support Ukraine but can't find any money ti abolish child benefit cap, or the bedroom tax etc
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Stewart Edwards
      · 3 months ago
      @Matt Matt

      Hopefully those real practical issues that you note in your final paragraph will be dealt with in the solutions thinking. The targets is a difficult one though for any public company (performance being measured by share price and growth).

      As I noted above I do understand the terror (fear can sometimes  not be strong enough), and its effects on health. But I prefer to be glass half full, than glass half empty. If Labour repeat Tory mistakes it will be bad, but it would have been bad anyway had the Tories won. Just now they are saying the right things to keep the markets happy (remember Truss).

      Everyone deserves a fair chance. Hopefully Labour will give it to the ill and disabled. Until October at least it is only fair that we give them a fair chance.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Matt
      · 3 months ago
      @Stewart Edwards I could argue the point about a 'democratic election' where nearly 40% didn't vote, and Labour got a majority of 174 with about 35% of the votes cast....

      As for giving Labour a chance...perceptions can be as important as facts.  People are suspicious that austerity is going to continue.  And the disabled traditionally are the easy target.

      With regards to work, I would really like some tougher anti-discrimination legislation with regards to employment. Most disabled people want to work; most employers, in my experience, do not want the hassle of the extra time to train the staff, the time it takes for access for work equipment to appear, and managers obsession with 'targets'.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Freda
    · 3 months ago
    I’m hoping they don’t replace pip with vouchers not unless those vouchers can help with heating too. My other half is on dialysis(9 years), has never smoked and drunk alcohol occasionally. He  has high blood pressure, AF, heart block, liver disease, peripheral atrial disease, kidney cancer, diverticulitis, diabetic, CKD-aP is also known as uremic pruritus. This is what happens to you when you’ve been on a machine for 15 hours a week 3 days a week, every week for 9 years. The machine eventually can’t reduce the toxins the same as you get older. He worked from the age of 15 full time until this happened to him at 60. After 45 years he had to give up which wouldn’t have been his choice. He worked in heavy industry as a fabricator and was too tired to continue and was falling asleep at work which was dangerous when using machinery. Our heating bills even in summer are high as he’s freezing cold All the time. He’s no kidney function to regulate the bodies temperature and his body temperature seems to be stuck on cold. He won’t die of kidney disease but cardiovascular diseases are the main cause of mortality in end-stage renal patients receiving haemodialysis. 

    This would impact my situation as my husband would have to pay tax on every penny of PIP but why not make it taxable. I’m not greedy and I’m sure the government could raise plenty money taxing pip, especially if your a pensioner and have a full pension. The new full State Pension is near the threshold, you start to pay tax at.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    DJ
    · 3 months ago
    Billions squandered and their response to fill 'a black hole' is to raid pensioners winter fuel payments.

    If regular PIP payments  are to be rplaced with vouchers then our politicians should also be using them for their expenses.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Cass
    · 3 months ago
    I would love to see the government try to force parents claiming child benefit to have to submit vouchers or receipts in order to receive a payment. Proposing this would result in absolute uproar, I'm certain. They wouldn't even consider it despite the fact it would actually probably go some way to helping child poverty.

    Thing is, having children is always an active choice, where as becoming ill/disabled never is - yet disabled people are constantly treated like second class citizens and are looked upon as "scroungers" simply for needing help to afford life's most basic needs. Where as 'tax payers' are more than happy to support child care fees and banging the drum about the two child benefit cap but turn their heads to the needs of disabled people. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Hannah B
    · 3 months ago
    If this government means test pip I will have to give up the job I love and go on universal credit. I use my pip for special taxis to be able to go to work in my wheelchair among other things. I thought this government wanted more disabled people at work. Why punish those who work in their wheelchairs.! 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      · 3 months ago
      @Hannah B
      Dear Hannah B, it's a disgrace and I honestly cannot see any sense to means testing P.I.P.
      Well done Hannah for getting out and working.
      Even though I am nearly 77 and on D.L.A. I still filled out the consultation "green paper" form and used the B&W guide lines.
      If they means test P.I.P. then nothing stopping them from means testing D.L.A. and Attendance Allowance.  Where will they stop?
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Matt
    · 3 months ago
    From a previous thread, thought this would be better entered here:

    As many readers will no doubt have seen on the news, Reeves has started to wield the axe: means testing for the winter fuel allowance; abolition of the social care cap. The Budget is set for 30th October. She has already stated that there will be 'difficult decisions' on spending and welfare. I would suspect Kendall's White Paper on welfare reform will have been published by then.

    I have said in a number of occasions and I'll reiterate it now: PIP as we have become used to is finished. What will replace it is anyone's guess, but restrictions on eligibility, means testing, the benefit being taxed, and conditionality being attached to receiving PIP are more than likely.

    I would welcome any constructive thoughts on how disabled people can mitigate a further cut in their living standards. I, for one, will have to seek, if possible, better paid employment
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    · 3 months ago
    Let’s all hope that pip stays money as a voucher can not work for mobility cars or repair 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Emily
    · 3 months ago
    It is disappointing it wasn’t more but given the election I guess wasn’t seen as urgent any more. Those that say will cancel PIP like mobility. It will save no money because let say scoop up all mobility cars. Ok who’s going get everyone to medical appointments? Where is the money for hospital transport? How are 100,000s children going to get to school? How are people going to get to work? Unless it will be you are not entitled to leave the house unless you also work and have children. 


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    MariW
    · 3 months ago
    After Labour means-tested the Winter Fuel Payment, a means-tested PIP frightens me as much, if not more, that the voucher scenario. 

    I would have no income. 

    Straight away, I would have to cease all support. I would be housebound without help because my savings would not last long. 

    If they means-test PIP, why stop there? What about AA? A fairer way would be to make income from these benefits taxable.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Hannah B
      · 3 months ago
      @MariW The thing is only 17% of pip claiments work or have savings so means testing wouldn't save that much money. And don't they want disabled people in work anyway? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Perceptive
    · 3 months ago
    The government will be more than happy to divide disabled people with similar disabilities into different groups. (Possibly based on those who have worked for many years and had built up savings and those who were not ever able to work).

    We are all disabled and PIP is to help us to cope with our disability, (irrespective of our means), as being disabled is very costly and prevents us from earning as we once did.

    Conversely Universal Credit, (which is already means tested), is the way to pay people without savings more income.

    It is very good news that the opinions of Stephen Timms now indicate the that the ridiculous voucher idea is a now a none starter.

    The bad news is the that Instead of all of us being happy about this apparent success regarding vouchers a large number of Means Tested posts indicate that some of our number post seems to indicate that some of our number now keep raising the spectre of Means Testing of PIP which is ridiculous.

    PIP should not be means tested and let us not raise that as an option.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Mark
    · 3 months ago
    Hopefully Labour will drop the cruel Tory green paper. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Robin Hood
    · 3 months ago
    Calling all PIP claimants if vouchers came about Don’t and I mean Don’t be concerned WHY , because vouchers will be quite easily forged and which ever government makes it happen will lose millions more in forgery vouchers and it would be a scandal to this country.
    Making criminals richer….so think this really hard who ever is in power!!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Diceman24
    · 3 months ago
    Just seen a article government looking at that people won’t get lcwra on top of universal credit  if you don’t receive pip benefit how would that work 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Brian Marriott
      · 3 months ago
      @Nightcity Tbh I don’t think it will happen anyway I think they tried it last year? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      John
      · 3 months ago
      @Nightcity Absolutely clickbait websites 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      A
      · 3 months ago
      @Nightcity Everyone should read your comment and stop googling and reading anything else.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      · 3 months ago
      @Nightcity Thanks Nightcity. Sensible response! Nothing has changed yet!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      JJ
      · 3 months ago
      @Diceman24 Pip is not an unemployment benefit, it's a catch all benefit for people with physical and or mental disabilities/impairments. There are people who receive PIP who work.


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    shawn
    · 3 months ago
    I think pip will become means tested like the winter allowance for pensioners, 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      shawn
      · 3 months ago
      @Paula Yes but they can easily remove that if they want to, 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Rik
      · 3 months ago
      @shawn If that were to happy, it would then count towards the benefit cap.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Luna
      · 3 months ago
      @shawn I think you right about mean testing 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Paula
      · 3 months ago
      @shawn That would absolutely end PIP as a support to disabled people. It's a levelling up benefit because EVERy disabled person is financially disadvantaged, no matter what their income, by disability. 

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