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Massive response to PIP vouchers Green Paper consultation

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There has been a massive response to the Modernising Support Green Paper, Stephen Timms, the DWP minister for disability has revealed.  And whilst the government is still not offering any certainty that the proposal to replace PIP cash payments with vouchers will be dropped, they do seem to be distancing themselves from the Conservative’s proposals.

Timms was answering a question on behalf of the secretary of state for Work and Pensions from Labour MP Cat Smith:

“To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, when she plans to publish her Department's response to the consultation entitled Modernising support for independent living: the health and disability green paper, published in April 2024.”

Timms replied:

“The consultation on the Modernising Support Green Paper closed on Monday 22 July. Over 16,000 responses have been received and we will review these responses.

“The proposals in this Green Paper were developed by the previous government. We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.”

The number of responses is more than ten times higher than were given to the DWP consultation on changes to the work capability assessment, which was launched in September 2023.  That consultation received 1,348 replies.

It is likely that the vast majority of responses will have been negative in relation to most of the proposals for changes to PIP.  It is encouraging to learn that so many people took the trouble to respond and it will have left the government in no doubt about the size of the fight they will have on their hands if they try to push through any of the more controversial ideas in the Green Paper  

The form of words used by Timms “We will be considering our own approach to social security in due course.” is identical to that used by Baroness Sherlock in the House of Lords last week.

Whilst it lacks any certainty, the phrase does suggest that Labour are planning to disown most of what the Conservatives have proposed.

Benefits and Work readers, who we know responded in large numbers to the Green Paper, can congratulate themselves on having spoken out so powerfully on behalf of the many PIP claimants who found the consultation too overwhelming to reply to.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    val
    · 3 months ago
    so if they mean test pip does that mean we will be able to get the benefits of other means tested people like free dental treatment free prescriptions free eye tests cost of living payment and winter fuel payment too ???
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      boris1
      · 3 months ago
      @val They have always denied extra help to those of us on non means tested benefits.
      We never got any of the cost of living payments or winter fuel allowance.
      I don't get and rent support or council tax support.
      I always had to pay for my nhs prescriptions. 
      They say it pays to work yet we get penalised by being denied the extra money those on means tested benefits get.
      The whole system is stacked against people like me and its grossly unfair.
      I worked for years and paid tax and national insurance. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      val
      · 3 months ago
      @boris1 and if they did not extend the extra help is that not discrimination against the disabled ? and is it not against the law to discriminate disabled people ??
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      boris1
      · 3 months ago
      @val @val Wouldn't that be nice if we did.
      Some of us have been penalised by the benefits system and had to pay our own prescription charges, rent, council tax etc.
      The whole system is totally unfair.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Anon
      · 3 months ago
      @val Good point, I suppose that would be the case. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      A
      · 3 months ago
      @val All the stuff you've listed are also means tested.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    A
    · 3 months ago
    Everybody on this thread is only talking about vouchers for PIP, when in reality the DWP's focus is more on finding ways to force as many claimants as possible into work and disallowing PIP for anyone who's working. I think PIP should be made means tested and disallowed to anyone who's working. 

    I don't think it's unfair to refuse PIP to people who are working. Why Should someone who's receiving a monthly salary get PIP? If they can manage working, they should as well be able to manage their daily living needs.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pamela
      · 2 months ago
      @lori Exactly.  Disabled people are some of the lowest paid.  Disability benefits are universal for a reason - because everyone living with significant disability has extra costs, whether they work or not. It levels the playing field.  Judging by some of the comments here I think the government’s tight lipped strategy on what they do intend for disability benefits is working.  We’re focused on the wrong thing, and some here who don’t work are turning on those who do and saying disability benefits shouldn’t be paid in work.  So what do you do if you’re low paid and don’t qualify for any other benefits ?  What do you do if your only means of getting to and from work is using a motability car provided by PIP mobility allowance ? Critical thinking needed here.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pamela
      · 2 months ago
      @A Ridiculous suggestion.  The point of PIP and other disability benefits is to level up with the cost of living with a disability.  Whether you can work or not is irrelevant, it still costs. And I don’t know anyone who can make ends meet on PIP alone - they are all either on different sickness benefits or have small occupational pensions having worked.  What you’re suggesting also means that those who use a motability car to get to and from work would lose PIP and lose the car  - so would be unable to work. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Concerned parent
      · 3 months ago
      @Matt My daughter lives in supported living she gets 37hrs care cost a week (even though she's 24/7) the council take all of her pip money towards care costs plus some 500 + a month..we are in our late 70s and have to subsidies her income otherwise she would have no money for leisure etc..its a disgrace what these governments and councils have done.so yes our daughter has been disabled from birth and will never get any better.. so my question is do we pay the council with vouchers???
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Emma
      · 3 months ago
      @Matt Totally agree!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lori
      · 3 months ago
      @A A monthly salary doesn't always cover your basic living costs, there's a myth that if you work you are better off than those on benefits, you're not unless you have a high paid job or work 16 hours a week and receive benefits
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    geoff and dionne
    · 3 months ago
    right! have u seen soylent green? all disabled r to be turned into food...or okayed for alien abduction or organ harvested and remember its only fair u pay uk society for ur drain on uk funds. i myself have been earmarked as food for morlocks, a privilege as a decorated ex raf war veteran pmsl
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Angry citizen
    · 3 months ago
    Aren’t the conservatives still in power but with a different colour code? There definitely not a working class party. We have a dictatorship in power, that has taken away the people’s freedom of speech. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Rik
    · 3 months ago
    Means testing PIP would mean it being counted towards the benefit cap. They aren’t going to increase the benefit cap, so can’t see PIP going that route. More likely is their new WCA will be much stricter, making it much harder to qualify for UC (LCWRA) & PIP.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Brian Marriott
    · 3 months ago
    There will be no update till September or October I’m sick of other Google pages coming up with stuff like this one https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1930924/dwp-pip-update-scrap-9583-payments-vouchers/amp
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Listen up
    · 3 months ago
    Hi all don’t read the comments about pip with vouchers yet wait till anyone is back in September then budget October just wait all you have to do is wait and see
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Tim
      · 1 months ago
      @Listen up That's a joke- it's not going to be revealed until Spring 2025! 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Jon
    · 3 months ago
    If I lose pip I can manage just on ESA have lost my pip in the past
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @Jon I can't manage on ESA at all.  PIP is vital to me staying alive.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    axab43
    · 3 months ago
    Thank you for this mostly positive report.  I no longer read the comments now as part of my mental health issues is severe anxiety and I find all the scare mongering/worst case scenario comments really upsetting.   Can anyone who has a positive/factual frame of mind tell me if there was going to be any change in PIP, how long it would take to go through parliament?  There are a number of big cash spend outs, ie a new sofa, I have been meaning to do for a long time but keep putting off (anxiety related.)  If PIP is going to be withdrawn, (which I doubt but just in case) I would like to know how long I have before such measures could go through legislation? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      cvd72
      · 3 months ago
      @mrfibro I don't belive anything in that comment to be true, obviously your'e trying to create negative comments and anger towards those claiming PIP by saying you can't buy so called expensive items. Most people on PIP have to claim it for extra costs with daily living and are not out spending it on how you say, expensive wardrobes and mattresses. Please get your facts right first instead of creating more division towards disabled and sick people, i get your'e entitled to your opinion but only if it's based on truth and not making genuinely sick or disabled people feel even worse about themselves as they already do, have a bit of compassion please.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Taking the pip
      · 3 months ago
      @axab43 Big cash spend outs. pip going to be withdrawn ,
      maybe not withdrawn for all, but most certainly reduced, 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Je
      · 3 months ago
      @axab43 Government now that most of people receiving PIP do NOT use It for extra Payment if NOT for everyday essentials because they Payment they gives in total are too low. So I do not really think this IS going to happen. I think PIP Will continue being in cash. Do NOT be stress , just relax. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @axab43 I too am extremely anxious and worried over this voucher lark.  As I wanted to buy some nice sliding wardrobes for the bedrooms.  And also to buy those expensive orthopedic beds, and mattresses.

      So now planning ahead has been put on hold.


    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      axab43
      · 3 months ago
      @Jdc Thank you.  I guess time will tell.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Scrounger
    · 3 months ago
    What has happened to the Chance to Work Guarantee and are reassessments still turned off? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Dawn
      · 3 months ago
      @Scrounger Yes that's what I want to know. Currently disabled people are too afraid to attempt work for fear of it triggering a re-assessment, in case it doesn't work out. What's more, the gvt need to accept that if a disabled person is capable of any work, it is also acceptable for them to work part-time if that's all they can manage, rather than saying they need to work full-time and threatening to have their universal credit completely taken away. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Robin Hood
    · 3 months ago
    Dear all, this is tough times indeed- and Winter Payments have been Hit,
    What next, since 1972 anybody on benefits received a Christmas Bonus from the government and since then we have had Labour, Conservatives and Liberals in power and the Christmas Bonus of £10 has NEVER increased since it was introduced in 1972.
    £10 Christmas Bonus since 1972 has always been the same WHY?, now we are in 2024 fifty two years (52yrs) has passed and £10 in today’s value is worth £165.36p (we have been robbed).
    This country should DEMAND from the present Government that it’s time to recognise the real cost of living for the needed of today’s society period.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pamela
      · 2 months ago
      @Pete There are also a lot of pensioners living abroad in countries where there is no option to claim pension credit so they still qualify for the WFP. That loophole should be closed if they’re going to be fair to all.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pete
      · 3 months ago
      @Robin Hood It's absolutely right that winter fuel payments be means tested as long as this isn't more costly in the long run.

      I honestly do not see the issue in asking wealthy pensioners to pay for it. It's not like it's a huge amount of money. Remember, many of us have already lost our warm home discount, regardless of how low our income is. This is a lot fairer in comparison.

      Remember there's a lot of pensioners abroad who don't get it or pension credit when they would be eligble for it here.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      · 3 months ago
      @TheDogmother Thank you TheDogmother. Thank you for your good wishes. I hope the move to UC goes well. I live in a council flat and am on housing benefit.  I note that the pension credit and housing benefit merger to housing credit, which was planned for 2028/9 is now being brought forward, so that's worrying me! Keep fighting!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      T
      · 3 months ago
      @TheDogmother I think it has to be a mistake because I know other people have received it. I'm like you and can't call them, I'd rather leave it and miss out than speak to them. Really don't trust DWP and I'd worry too much that they would do something if I got somebody to call them to enquire. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      TheDogmother
      · 3 months ago
      @Kiki @Kiki most peculiar. unless i phone them and ask directly i guess i will never know why.
      But im terrible on the phone and panic. Takecare  X
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    (No) hope
    · 3 months ago
    There is a real disconnect between mp’s and the public at large who I thought they were elected to serve. And a large amount of arrogance and disrespect towards the very people that elected them, and a do as I say, not as I do attitude. Please please please e Mail your mp about your pip angst, and also other issues like the winter fuel payments, let’s have way more response than the 16000 to the green paper;leave them in no doubt how we feel, and how we will be affected.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Pamela
      · 2 months ago
      @Henry I also think they made some of the questions deliberately ambiguous so they could claim that people had agreed with many of the proposals, when in fact they hadn’t.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      HIMO
      · 3 months ago
      @Yorry
      I am sorry if this sounds harsh but why would you give up on something that could potentially affect you so greatly?

      Yes the forms were tough but that's why there was a guide on here that you could copy and paste the answers from.

      We all better hope that the responses that were received were enough!!

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      (No) hope
      · 3 months ago
      @Henry Yes you are right, the form was lengthy, confusing and some questions worded in such a way that  you could have found yourself agreeing with at least some of what they proposed without careful thought. I can see why some must have given up or not bothered. That’s what they wanted. But please, without wishing to sound like a stuck record, register your discontent with your mp, voice concerns over what you’ve heard and read, let them know it stinks and how going after the most vulnerable really is low and not why they were voted for. Give them something to think about during their long summer recess. Let’s get louder still.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Yorry
      · 3 months ago
      @Henry I attempted twice to fill the form and eventually I gave up. The questions didn't make sense and I felt the answers were never going to be in favour of the current system.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Henry
      · 3 months ago
      @(No) hope They made the questions very difficult on purpose. A lot of people couldn't possibly get through it, which is why the count is so low imo.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Robin Hood
    · 3 months ago
    The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £91,346, plus expenses, from April 2024. In addition, MPs are able to claim allowances NOT vouchers so they expect disabled people to start receiving vouchers instead of cash why can’t the MP’s start to use vouchers to cover the costs of running an office and employing staff, and maintaining a constituency residence or a residence in London and if they think it works so, Why not MP’s start using vouchers to prove that it works instead using their expenses and allowances payed by Tax Payers.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    HIMO
    · 3 months ago
    Hi Everyone, there is a petition to save the winter fuel payment. Please if you hate what is happening, sign it. You don't have to give money, you can skip that bit. They are targeting the old then it will be the sick.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M
    · 3 months ago
    Folks when emailing your MPs please remember to inform them that Means testing of PIP was opposed by Labour while in opposition 

    Get emailing 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      · 3 months ago
      @Jen
      Remember Tony Blair's "New Deal"
      "The workless classes"
      New Deal for the Disabled targeted those with disabilities in receipt of Incapacity and similar benefits. £200 million was budgeted for the program up to 2002 (Peck, “Workfare” 304-305). This was superseded by the 'Work Capability Assessment', introduced by the Brown government in 2008, and administered by Atos Healthcare.

      • New Deal 50+ targeted those aged 50 and older.
      Did anyone watch the documentary "Tish"  on BBC 4? Says it all. 57 when she died of a brain aneurysm and was still have to go to sign on!  Dying in hospital, and denied any help from the DWP.

      Single mums with home responsibilites too!

      Sound familiar?

      They will be digging up corpses next and making them go to work.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Jen
      · 3 months ago
      @M Tony Blair’s government looked into means testing disability benefits!
      All governments will do what they think they can get away with!
      The narrative on people with disabilities is awful, we’re all just lazy!
      And pensioners are all rich!
      Divisive tactics that appear to be working!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      · 3 months ago
      @M
      Just seen on the news that my MP is under investigation by Parliament’s standards watchdog after allegedly failing to declare income from a London rental flat for more than a year.  They work for us!!!!!???? L.o.l.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    tinytim
    · 3 months ago
    Regarding winter fuel payments it is stated that people on pension credit and or other means tested benefit which I found out that old legacy benefit which is means tested is income support and housing benefit so we should in theory still be eligible I have contacted my mp and he said he will find out.As many I get a small pension on ton of new state pension which does not entitle me to pension credit and with tax I am paying seems so unfair as I am no way rich but am disabled as well like many. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Bud
      · 3 months ago
      @tinytim tinytim

      Here’s a full list of benefits that are not expected to make claimants eligible for Winter Fuel Payments.
      Every benefit that will no longer be eligible for Winter Fuel Payments
      According to the Chancellor’s new plan, only those claiming Pension Credit or some means-tested benefits will definitely be eligible for Winter Fuel Payments.
      This means pensioners claiming the following benefits will not be eligible this winter:
      Attendance Allowance
      Bereavement Support Payment
      Carer's Allowance
      Disability Living Allowance
      New style Employment and Support Allowance
      Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
      State Pension
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    MJ
    · 3 months ago
    Labour announcing so suddenly that they are reducing Winter Payments to only those pensioners on Pension Credit speaks volumes. My mum on a State Pension and a very small private pension loses out. She can't believe that the Labour Party has done this. I can't help but think this is only the beginning. 

    Yet Public workers will get an above inflation price rise that Sky says will cost 10 billion. Junior Doctors 22% increase about a billion. Also 28 billion a year on Green projects. That money has to come from somewhere. Yes I'm doom and gloom at the moment for our prospects, yet only being realistic. Those with rose tinted glasses can vote me down; they will never admit they were wrong. I however hope I'm wrong and will say so if I am; please let me be wrong, but it seems likely we are in for a bumpy ride at best.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @MJ And after the junior doctors payrise, taxes will increase, hence more begging bowls for more pay rises.  Everyone will be crawling out of the woodwork, to get more pay rises.  Meaning the goverment will cut more off the welfare budget to pay for it.

      I noticed the government  doesn't or wont stop, or massively reduce foreign aid (15+ billion per year)  Neither will they go cut the royal family's increase each year.  And neither will they cut down on the corporate tax dodgers etc.  There's lots of other ways this government could save money, rather than target disabled people to fill in this so-called black hole.

      They could also claw some of the 35 billion quid Liz Truss ballsed up, when she was PM.  They could stop that 100+k per year for life game.  That should pull back a few bob, and also stop other MP's getting it too.

      If you left work either due to being sick, ill, disabled, or got sacked, your firm wont pay you 100K+ for life will they.

      Labour is going about things the wrong way, or I should say their priorities are in the wrong order.  More of this nonsense will cost them dearly @ the next GE in 5 years time.  Blue / reds you couldnt make it up if you tried.  Thats what you get for having Blues infiltrate in reds politics / policies, the blues have tainted labour.  Like Kendall for one.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Boogz
      · 3 months ago
      @MJ We tried to warn people that Labour would do this kind of thing but were called every nasty name under the sun. It's only going to get worse. But hey, while we're freezing and hungry in the winter at least we'll know that we're helping fund "green initiatives". Kind of ironic really... to save the planet from "burning" we'll all have to freeze. Smh
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M
    · 3 months ago
    I suggest everyone should email their MPs and highlight their concerns in realation to the possibility of means testing PIP
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    Shawn
    · 3 months ago
    Why is everyone saying oct, they didnt wait till then to remove the pensioners winter allowance, whatever they decide could happen anytime, 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Brian Marriott
      · 3 months ago
      @Shawn It won’t happen till they are back if it dose the people are on break till September 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      lesley
      · 3 months ago
      @Shawn Shawn, from my understanding it's been on the cards for a long time.  The tories did not do it because they made a clear play for the gray vote by pledging to increase the income pensioners can receive before they are taxed amongst other things!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @Brian Marriott And off they all go on a nice jolly until Octoberish.  No doubt they made sure they get big pay rises.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @Shawn Exactly.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Brian Marriott
      · 3 months ago
      @Shawn They are shut till September so no changes yet 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    M
    · 3 months ago
    I suggest that everyone writes to their Labour MPs and suggests that of PIP is means tested that they will think twice about voting Labour again (if they have voted them)
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      Robin Hood
      · 3 months ago
      @M I didn’t vote Labour or Conservative or  anyone else as matter of fact because I don’t trust anyone who sits in the Houses of Parliament pls see my points in my comments…
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      mrfibro
      · 3 months ago
      @M labours not bothered all they're bothered about is the now. Labours just wants to put their political stamp on it.  They will worry about voters in another 4 years time.  Then they will dangle the carrot's.  

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