The harsh and legally questionable cruelty inflicted on unpaid carers by the DWP provides incontrovertible evidence that the department must never get the police powers they so desperately crave.

A series of articles by the Guardian has highlighted not just the cruelty with which unpaid carers are treated but also shows that the DWP:

  • knows when carers have gone over the earnings limit, but allows their claims to continue, often for months or even years before recovering the full amount and threatening carers with jail terms;
  • has used laws designed to strip drug dealers of their property to snatch money from carers;
  • unlawfully ignores judges’ directions in order to maximise the amount they can claw back from carers;
  • misled MPs for years by promising that new technology meant large overpayments would no longer happen and so MPs did not need to take any action;
  • is refusing to publish a report on the effects of overpayment recovery on claimants, years after it was completed.

The Guardian highlights the shameful treatment of Vivienne Groom who cared for her frail, elderly mother who had dementia and had suffered a stroke. 

Groom got a 16 hour a week, minimum wage job at the Co-Op in 2014 and was told by a social worker she didn’t need to declare it as she was below the earnings limit.

In 2015 the Co-Op increased her hours and Groom called the DWP to say she no longer wished to claim carers allowance.

A DWP call handler told her “We’ll have to look into this and get back to you.”

She never heard back from them until 2022, when she got a letter from the DWP telling her she was being prosecuted for fraud.

Groom agreed to pay back £30 a month.

But after her mother died and left her £16,000 the DWP prosecuted Groom using the Proceeds of Crime Act, intended to take expensive cars and large houses from drug dealers, to threaten Groom with up to seven years in prison and to take all of her inheritance.

On three occasions at separate hearings, judges in the case told the DWP to calculate how much carers allowance Groom would have been entitled to if she had declared her earnings.  The DWP failed to do so and on the fourth occasion the judge appears to have simply given up and allowed the DWP to take the whole legacy, even though the calculation may have showed she owed less.

Groom herself was given a 12 month community order.

The unfair treatment was compounded by the fact that Groom was refused legal aid to defend herself because she had £16,000 in capital.  Yet the DWP had frozen her bank account on the day the money was paid in, meaning she had absolutely no way of accessing it.

If Groom had been able to get legal representation it is unlikely the DWP would have got away with ignoring judges’ directions and clawing back money they may not have been owed.

And, in this case, as in many others, the DWP was aware of the overpayment and did nothing about it for years. 

In fact, the Guardian carried a story way back in 2019 about the failure of the DWP to act when they discovered overpayments of carers allowance or when carers told them about a change of circumstances, sometimes allowing them to build up overpayments for years before suddenly moving to recover the money.  The article followed on from a Commons Work and Pensions Committee report on the same subject.

However, at the time the DWP assured MPs that they now have technology that can flag up when a carers income goes over the threshold and so large overpayments would not happen in the future.

In reality, although  the DWP does have such IT systems, they are failing to follow up on red flags in many cases and large overpayments followed by fraud prosecutions continue to happen.

In a final insult, the DWP commissioned a report into Carers Allowance and the effect of overpayment recovery on carers, but they are refusing to publish it, in spite of the huge public interest in its findings being made public.

It is clear that MPs must act to force the DWP to take responsibility for informing carers when they exceed the earnings limit and to refrain from recovering innocent overpayments.

It is equally clear that the culture of bullying, intimidation and ignoring the law whenever they can get away with it makes the DWP utterly unfit to ever hold powers of search, seizure and prosecution – no matter how desperate they are to get them.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    If I do something wrong, I'll be punished.  Or fined.  Or fired.  Or jailed.  And same applies to every one of you reading this.  And we all know that.  We all know how to behave and keep on the right side of the law.   We know how our justice system works.  For ALL of us.  So, who governs the DWP?  Why are they able to ignore the laws of our land..our justice system?  Why do they ignore court rulings..directives from people in power with impunity?  Why are they different to us?  Why are they not punished for breaking laws?  WHY WHY WHY?  Is there some Law that gives the entire DWP immunity from how the rest of Britain is treated?  I may  go out to steal a car now..or bash a pensioner.  I won't be punished if I say I work for the DWP.  Is that how  things work in this country? Because that's how it looks.  Is the DWP governed by anyone?  Is it policed by anyone?  Obviously not.  Basically....we're all done for!!!  In this 21st century modern fair non discriminatory world.  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    To stop this sort of thing happening there should be rules limiting how much can be reclaimed once the claimant has reported a change. This would encourage people to report changes in a timely manner and defeat DWPs loan shark mentality. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    "A DWP call handler told her “We’ll have to look into this and get back to you.”

    She never heard back from them until 2022, when she got a letter from the DWP telling her she was being prosecuted for fraud".

    There are important pieces of the OP fraud prosecution jigsaw missing here

    DWP have to make a formal decision and communicate in writing that a recoverable OP has taken place.

    Secondly, before passing the case to the Crown Prosecution Service for consideration if further action should be taken, she will have been summonsed  (in writing) to at least two if they did not attend the first, formal interview held under  Police and Criminal Evidence Act 84.

    She would not have been prosecuted under POCA. She would have faced a charge under Social Security legislation of obtaining benefits by deception. POCA is applied post-conviction. (Plus, how did DWP find out about the inheritance?)




    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @Mark N The bank always tells the DWP when an inheritance is paid into someone’s bank account!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @Mark N DWP seem able to determine all sort of aspects about a claimants financial situation, and seems that its powers are being extended end of 2024/start of 2025 even further. From that point it appears the DWP can, in certain circumstances, request information on other accounts linked to the claimant. Not certain of details when, how and what circumstances, but keep your eyes and ears open!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    The DWP seem to have a hold over all governments. The senior ones need to go and they need to follow their own regulations. Why were they allowed to ignore three Judges rulings? The whole organisation needs to be investigated fully. The managers are a joke, at all levels and view every claimant as a scrounger. Total disregard for the sick and disabled. The amount of Carers Allowance is an insult. Who wants to work for £2 per hour?
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    Something doesnt sound right about this. If Mrs Groom notified the DWP she no longer wished to claim carers allowance - yet it kept being paid - she would have known that and should have put that money to one side. She should have gone back to the DWP - repeatedly - if necessary - or with help from CAB or other support agency - until the matter was resolved.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @I King So ok for her to keep spending the money that she was not entitled to? Ok I get that she should not have to keep contacting them and yes she should not have to do their job for them. But she also has a duty not to spend the money being erroneously paid to her, especially as she knew it was still being paid. Sorry. Not buying this.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @Baz Why should she? If she recorded her contact with them then her responsibility has been fulfilled. It's not her place to do their job for them. They are despicable and not fit for purpose. That they can operate in the way they do with total disregard for our judicial system is a national disgrace. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @Baz No nothing is right with this story! Why is it allowed for the DWP think themselves higher than any law enforcement in the country? I'm appalled with their actions!!!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    Can you advise me if you think i  can claim any benefiti have spongelousis of the spine ive had triple heart bypassim diabetic i also have diverticulosis startin of crones  and artheritus of the hands im semi retiredand av savings do you think i can claim i would realy like to stop work but money is tight thanks harry
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    This morning on the BBC news we were told about a Gang of Four foreign nationals who had over a four year period defrauded the DWP of about £50 million pounds with multiple claims for universal credit.
    This once again shows how the system does not work.
    The program also mentions that since UC was introduced billions of pounds may have been wrongly claimed by other gangs playing the system.
    Root and branch needed now this department is not fit for purpose.
    Job centres and face to face meetings only for claimants unless disability is a issue.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    Watch out currently Rishi Putin and his cronies have control. When Starmer and his lot get in it’ll be worse than the former EASTERN BLOCK peoples police!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    Fagitsu comes to mind........how much more of this must we super?
    There squandering public wealth  & our taxes.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    Just because she notified them it doesn’t mean they bothered to deal with it. With DWP you need to ask for written responses or take names of whom you speak with as the lot of them are a bunch of liars 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    This is truly atrocious.  Vivienne Groom's case resembles that of more than a few people I've come across. I am aware of at least two people in my neighbourhood who had both informed the DWP of changes in circumstances related to income.  The communications were acknowledged but nothing was done, no change to their benefits. They assumed everything was okay. Then, much later, during a periodic review of their awards, they were *accused* of giving misleading information on income and Big Enquiries were set in motion.  

    In both these cases everything was eventually sorted out and no action was taken - but both of these women were put through hell for months.  The stress and the toll it took on their (already poor) health was appalling.

    The DWP is presenting more and more as an organisation of thugs than anything else.  This poor woman suffered terribly - anat a time when she was grieving for her mother too.  Shameful.  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    None of this surprises me.  I am in my late seventies and I had an ankle fusion, a TTC in December.
    I was supposed to go into rehabilitation. It never happened.  I came home in an ambulance. Came up my stairs on my bottom. I am in a third floor flat.  I could not get the promised 6 weeks free care at home from my local authority.  My lower leg was in a hard cast for 7 weeks.  Then I had the stitches out and an aircast boot on, and still on crutches.   The hospital ommitted to remove some of the metal stitches and I had to call 111 who incidentally were brilliant. They sent two nurses around and removed the metal stitches.  I am still in the air cast boot and using crutches.  I had no help whatsoever from my local authority.  I am fortunate in that my son who works in London but lives in Surrey, was able to come after work twice a week and help me with some chores and a small shop.  He is away at the moment, so I have no help whatsoever.
    So I agree it is an absolutely hearless system and not fit for purpose.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    I've come across these malevolent tactics of DWP before. And I've come across cases of so-called "Claimant Advisors" setting claimants up to fail. The colloquial term for it is "Benefit Denial Fraud", but it is a form of Fraud under the Fraud Act 2006, most likely, Fraud by Abuse of Position and/or Fraud by False Representation. I have also come across suspicious claims of overpayment of benefits to claimants which, when challenged, is suddenly claimed to be an "error" or "oversight" on DWP's part. DWP must not be permitted to have any further powers.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @Michael Why should the DWP be any different to the post office, after all they are all government departments. It would also seem their computers don't work properly either. I have worked for over 50 years and paid a full NI stamp, I am also a WASPI woman so had to work 6 years longer than I expected. But at the end of all of that we can only claim 35 years towards your pension. Can any one tell me what has the DWP done with the rest of the years we all paid into.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    It makes no difference if the DWP are given 'police powers' or not because they are a law unto themselves anyway. They are blatantly ignoring the Judges and dishing out their own punishments regardless.
     
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    There bullies but karma will come..They think there a law unto themselves and when they screw up it's the innocent that suffer and they think there above the law.. IT'S GOT TO STOP.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    If she informed the DWP of her increased hours, and the DWP said they would get back to he, but they didn't, why is she liable for any over-payment from the date the DWP were informed? Surely it is the fault of the DWP once it has been notified?
    Isn't she entitled to appeal, with legal aid now that the DWP have taken the £16k that stopped her getting legal aid in the first place?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @John P My thoughts exactly - she notified them and they took no action.  Seems to be an open and shut case, then the DWP failed to back up how much they'd overpaid so the judge awarded the full amount!?  Something doesn't sound right at all here. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    This reminds me of the current investigation of the Post Office, picking on vulnerable people as they are an easy target as was Vivienne. The social worker must carry a large amount of the blame and there should have been an investigation as to why that advice was given. Equally why was this woman not directed to her local Citizens Advice Bureau or Age Concern both of whom would have helped her but I suppose not everyone would think of that. The DWP are willing to spread repayments over a longer period if you approach them and discuss it. This woman was failed by social services. they are the main culprits in this tale.It may be that Vivienne herself was struggling mentally so the blame lies with social services.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @John P Totally agree that Social Workers are not permitted to give information and advice to customers or carers when it comes to money and benefits. 
      I was a social worker for older people and physical disabilities until I had to take early retirement due to illness. Thank god I did before everything got 10 times worse. 
      As you say John P it was always drummed into us that we were never to advise anyone on benefits or other claims. We were only permitted to say that benefits and other claims are changing all the time and any information we gave could be out of date or wrong. 
      I would pass the telephone numbers on PIP; Attendance Allowance and/or Work age benefits or Pensions information. 
      I would also suggest they speak to Citizens Advice or the locals Welfare Rights. I would suggest to them to make an appointment as they could also assist in filling out the forms.
      The social worker and the team should take responsibility for the wrong and actual illegal advice to not supply all the correct information as it could cause a fraud charge as to knowledgeably withholding the original employment.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @steffi allen I agree, the social worker was at fault and went beyond his/her remit. Social workers are not permitted to give benefit advice of any kind. They are supposed to signpost someone to relevant agencies like CAB or suchlike, which can give accurate advice and support when claiming a benefit.

      So this particular social worker failed on 2 counts; (i) on giving benefit advice she was not supposed, or qualified, to give (ii) failed to give a basic directive to signpost Vivienne to the relevant agencies that give benefit advice and support.

      Vivienne could, imo, have a case against this social worker's Social Services Department. This social worker could be continuing to give out incorrect advice and should, at the very least, be reported so that disciplinary action can be taken, and can be sent for retraining to safeguard other vulnerable people he/she may come into contact.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    2 things spring to mind here...

    1] Why didn't she just stop the claim via the DWP if she knew that her earnings were above the threshold,
    2] Why not pursue the Social Worker if she received what you say is... 'poor advice.'   
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 months ago
      @Charles Farleigh There's probably no proof of the social worker saying this, it's a case of she said, she said. I've no doubt the social worker just denied saying anything.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    We are heading towards a fascist state with Labour set to continue the Tories legacy when they get in. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 months ago
    This department has become a law unto itself and is unlikely to change under a change of government because of how entrenched the abusive management is within every system. What's needed is for the entire senior management and their entire regime to be sacked and replaced, root and stem. Nothing less will.lead to real change. The absolute last thing that should happen is to give them even more power to put them outside the justice system altogether, which is what they now want. It will become even more fascistic than it is now, and we should all be terrified of that.

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