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ESA exempt ('permitted') work, earnings offsets, self-employment, & hours issues
- Jonathan1975
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6 months 1 day ago #291433 by Jonathan1975
ESA exempt ('permitted') work, earnings offsets, self-employment, & hours issues was created by Jonathan1975
Hi,
I found recently, to my great happiness, I could cope with a bit of part-time driving work, but am finding extreme difficulty in getting any shifts given to me through my temp agencies. So through other sources, i.e. gig and part-time permanent or contract work, it's extremely hard to find stuff that's consistently within the earnings limits: most proper employers pay above minimum wage now. And some gig ones have funny hours/pay patterns. This is also material for a friend on PIP and ESA-LCWRA who through nominal self-employment has occasionally exceeded hours/earnings limits (under her interpretation of the rules). So:
Pension contributions and net earnings
Can pension contributions reduce employed earnings prior to the £183.50 (min wage x 16hrs) assessment being applied for ESA exempt ('permitted') work purposes, in the way it does for income tax, i.e. it reducing the pre-income-tax income by 50% of the amount contributed?
Pension contribs and gig work/self-employed net earnings
If so could pension contributions achieve a similar result in the case of nominally self-employed gig work, through ad-hoc contributions?
Pension contribs and employers refusing to operate pension schemes
Where an employer refuses to operate a pension scheme, can I reduce my nominal earnings for ESA purposes by making ad-hoc contributions?
Statutory holiday pay, minimum wage, and the moment at which the holiday pay is deemed to have been earned
Given for income tax purposes statutory holiday pay must (surely?) be deemed to be earned in the week in which the employee elects for it to be taken, and given some employers are entitled to pay it at the same time as the wage (as long as it’s itemized), do those latter (immediate) payments a) get treated as not immediate earnings for tax purposes and b) for ESA purposes?
Statutory holiday pay, minimum wage, and self-employment (as matter of statutory interpretation)
and given as a matter of policy & statutory interpretation it’s unrealistic to presume self-employed workers don’t need/won’t take holidays, can an analogous ‘holiday apportionment’ be applied to self-employed earners’ incomes, to raise the weekly £183.50 cap by the statutory holiday minimum of 12.07%, i.e. to £205.65 (so long as the earner takes 5.6 weeks’ holiday, or less on a pro-rata basis)?
Unpaid travel time between piecework jobs, and 16 hour limit
Does unpaid travel time on public transport between piecework gig (car delivery) jobs in a several-delivery day count as work hours?
Point at which the week begins for purposes of 16 hour limit
If a gig ‘employer’ (in fact they declare it’s self-employment’) only offers a minimum of 3-day tranches of work, paid by cars delivered (3-4 deliveries a day, £20-£28 a delivery, they estimate £80 income a day, although some online report as little as £40-50, they estimate taking 8-10 hours to perform), could someone in my shoes with a 16 hour limit (18 with averaging) declare my week-beginning to be after one of those 3 days, and do one 3-day tranche every two weeks instead of every one week, ergo on one ‘week’ I do 1 shift and on another ‘week’ I do two?
New PW1 form for each new work pattern?
Do I need to submit a new PW1 form for every new employer (or gigwork organizer) given each will have a slightly different work-pattern, pay, and set of duties?
Can one begin work if technically uncertain but has at least arguable case about PW1 (permitted/exempt work terms) compliance?
If I’m worried that a ‘no’ answer might be forthcoming to one of the above questions arising from a PW1 submission, but that a ‘yes’ is crucial to it falling within permitted work rules, does that mean I can/can’t begin the work but submit a PW1 immediately if I’m to keep my ESA, or is it OK to begin the work, submit PW1 immediately, and then stop it if ESA say it doesn’t fall within the rules?
I truly despair of getting any other work I can do with my current training and experience and capability level, and these questions and similar have become crucial, both for me and a friend in a similar position.
With enormous thanks - Jonathan
I found recently, to my great happiness, I could cope with a bit of part-time driving work, but am finding extreme difficulty in getting any shifts given to me through my temp agencies. So through other sources, i.e. gig and part-time permanent or contract work, it's extremely hard to find stuff that's consistently within the earnings limits: most proper employers pay above minimum wage now. And some gig ones have funny hours/pay patterns. This is also material for a friend on PIP and ESA-LCWRA who through nominal self-employment has occasionally exceeded hours/earnings limits (under her interpretation of the rules). So:
Pension contributions and net earnings
Can pension contributions reduce employed earnings prior to the £183.50 (min wage x 16hrs) assessment being applied for ESA exempt ('permitted') work purposes, in the way it does for income tax, i.e. it reducing the pre-income-tax income by 50% of the amount contributed?
Pension contribs and gig work/self-employed net earnings
If so could pension contributions achieve a similar result in the case of nominally self-employed gig work, through ad-hoc contributions?
Pension contribs and employers refusing to operate pension schemes
Where an employer refuses to operate a pension scheme, can I reduce my nominal earnings for ESA purposes by making ad-hoc contributions?
Statutory holiday pay, minimum wage, and the moment at which the holiday pay is deemed to have been earned
Given for income tax purposes statutory holiday pay must (surely?) be deemed to be earned in the week in which the employee elects for it to be taken, and given some employers are entitled to pay it at the same time as the wage (as long as it’s itemized), do those latter (immediate) payments a) get treated as not immediate earnings for tax purposes and b) for ESA purposes?
Statutory holiday pay, minimum wage, and self-employment (as matter of statutory interpretation)
and given as a matter of policy & statutory interpretation it’s unrealistic to presume self-employed workers don’t need/won’t take holidays, can an analogous ‘holiday apportionment’ be applied to self-employed earners’ incomes, to raise the weekly £183.50 cap by the statutory holiday minimum of 12.07%, i.e. to £205.65 (so long as the earner takes 5.6 weeks’ holiday, or less on a pro-rata basis)?
Unpaid travel time between piecework jobs, and 16 hour limit
Does unpaid travel time on public transport between piecework gig (car delivery) jobs in a several-delivery day count as work hours?
Point at which the week begins for purposes of 16 hour limit
If a gig ‘employer’ (in fact they declare it’s self-employment’) only offers a minimum of 3-day tranches of work, paid by cars delivered (3-4 deliveries a day, £20-£28 a delivery, they estimate £80 income a day, although some online report as little as £40-50, they estimate taking 8-10 hours to perform), could someone in my shoes with a 16 hour limit (18 with averaging) declare my week-beginning to be after one of those 3 days, and do one 3-day tranche every two weeks instead of every one week, ergo on one ‘week’ I do 1 shift and on another ‘week’ I do two?
New PW1 form for each new work pattern?
Do I need to submit a new PW1 form for every new employer (or gigwork organizer) given each will have a slightly different work-pattern, pay, and set of duties?
Can one begin work if technically uncertain but has at least arguable case about PW1 (permitted/exempt work terms) compliance?
If I’m worried that a ‘no’ answer might be forthcoming to one of the above questions arising from a PW1 submission, but that a ‘yes’ is crucial to it falling within permitted work rules, does that mean I can/can’t begin the work but submit a PW1 immediately if I’m to keep my ESA, or is it OK to begin the work, submit PW1 immediately, and then stop it if ESA say it doesn’t fall within the rules?
I truly despair of getting any other work I can do with my current training and experience and capability level, and these questions and similar have become crucial, both for me and a friend in a similar position.
With enormous thanks - Jonathan
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- Gary
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6 months 20 hours ago #291488 by Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gary on topic ESA exempt ('permitted') work, earnings offsets, self-employment, & hours issues
Hi Jonathan1975
Welcome to the forum.
You might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is; www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq/forum.
Thank you for your question, unfortunately it is outside the remit of the forum.
We would advise you to seek advice from your local Welfare Rights Organisation where they can take all your circumstances into consideration; advicelocal.uk
Gary
Welcome to the forum.
You might want to have a look at the following FAQ which explains where everything is; www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/guides-for-claimants/faq/forum.
Thank you for your question, unfortunately it is outside the remit of the forum.
We would advise you to seek advice from your local Welfare Rights Organisation where they can take all your circumstances into consideration; advicelocal.uk
Gary
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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