Our tribunal experience - hope it helps

Hope it helps some souls out there to share our tribunal experience last Friday 15 February. My husband has chronic Hepatitis C and has cirrhosis of the liver. This is also complicated by other conditions but I’ll try to keep it short and focus on what related to the verdict.

He was appealing to be placed in the Support group from the WRAG group. It was 7 months between lodging his appeal and receiving his appeal papers. During this time I twice wrote to DWP to ask for confirmation that we were even in the process and never received answers. Also during this time the WRAG payments he had received for 6 months ceased and no further financial support was forthcoming.

The appeals papers arrived just before Christmas, followed by a letter from the Tribunals Service saying that he could expect to wait 36-40 weeks. We skim-read through the appeals papers a couple of times but it seemed there would be no hurry, so we didn’t start working on them. In January my husband got a call from the Tribunals Service saying they were trying to clear the backlog and could his case be heard at an alternative (and actually infinitely more convenient) venue? The answer, of course, was yes.

By now, being nearly a year since my husband first entered the benefits system, it was time for re-assessment. Two brown envelopes, a new ESA 50 form and a letter from the Tribunals service announcing our appeal date arrived in same week. This letter dated 1 February arrived on 5 February giving an appeal date of 15 February and asking for any further evidence to be submitted 7 days before. This gave us 10 days notice to prepare, and our final evidence (which fortunately we had) had to be turned around by return of post. The new ESA 50 gave us until 4 March to reply, so had to go on the back burner until we knew what would happen at the tribunal and found out what on earth we were to do with it depending on the outcome.

Needless to say, some frenetic activity ensued. I did a written submission because I find it easier to express things on paper and it helps to focus my mind. Firstly I listed anything in the appeals bundle that had been presented as fact that we thought was inaccurate. Then I listed any interpretation of the facts I thought was inaccurate, Then I listed other points I thought should be taken into consideration. I finished by summarising, including what we thought the outcome should be and why, using points of law wherever possible. There was no time to submit this before the tribunal, so I took it with us.

If you have never been to the tribunal venue before, it’s probably best to arrive at least 20 minutes before you need to be there. First you may need to park and then you need to navigate the building. The first surprise for me was the airport style security to enter – handbag search and metal detector looking for perfumes, sprays or sharp objects. This wasn’t a problem except that if I had known anyone would be looking in my handbag I might have tidied it up a bit! It can be uncomfortable to feel you are “on the back foot” before you’ve even started. You may find yourself in a large building with lots of stuff going on and if the receptionist is busy dealing with other people you may also find that the first person you find to ask doesn’t necessarily have a clue what goes on where. If you can’t move quickly, easily or far, you won’t want too many anxious hurried walks around the place to find out where on earth you should be and you won’t want to be worrying whether you are in the right waiting room for the right court room and anyway, can you find anyone to tell them you are there and will the tribunal start without you?

We couldn’t find an usher but the court clerk (?) found us in the waiting room, explained what would happen next and led us in when it was our time. Yes, it was “round the table” but boy, that was a hell of a table! I was a bit surprised to find the doctor and judge sitting practically on the other side of the room which was a bit daunting at first. However, we found them both to be shrewd, impartial and considerate.

They asked my husband questions but nothing to worry about, just things to find out what his life is like. The doctor had to shut me up when I opened my big mouth much too soon but after I dutifully sat in silence and scribbled down a note to remember what I wanted to say, I was given the opportunity to speak. In fact, I didn’t have much to add, as most of what I wanted them to know was in the written submission now in their possession.

When it was over we were sent out and called back in again in due course (not long) for the verdict. In our case regulation 35 of the ESA Regulations 2008 was found to apply; in that there would be a substantial risk to my husband’s physical health if he were found not to have limited capacity for work. Perhaps best of all, they made a recommendation that he is not re-assessed for at least 24 months! This we still can’t quite get over and just daring to believe that we might now only be a few brown envelopes away from a bit of peace gave us the most wonderful weekend imaginable (although it still makes me cross that we are at the mercy of a system that gives us such a rollercoaster of emotions in pursuit of justice).

Remember to look at what the law considers to be important and match your case to that. However galling it may be, what seems to you the most obvious points in your favour won’t necessarily carry the most weight. To me, the most blindingly obvious and simple fact is that my husband is much too ill to work, not the fact that working would make him more ill; but our appeal was upheld on the latter. As we all know, if you can move your arms and legs and hold a conversation, an inability to work will in all likelihood be the hardest thing to prove. We were helped by the supporting evidence of 3 doctors’ letters (an independent health care professional employed by my husband’s former employer, then later submissions from his specialist and his GP). The doctor on the tribunal seemed to give considerable importance to his compromised immune system and inability to fight infections.

I asked their advice about what to do with the new ESA 50 form and was advised to ring the DWP with the result of the verdict and ask if we still have to fill it in. We are still waiting for the outcome of that.

Lucky me, I have a job and am able in mind and body but was still exhausted and stressed by the whole process. I have deliberately left all the anguish out of this account as I am sure it will be all too familiar to you. My heart goes out to those of you out there who are alone, ill, penniless and find it hard to concentrate – especially if you can’t find £19.45. If you struggle with the (brilliant) guides on this website because of your condition, do get help from the CAB or one of the relevant organisations that subscribe to this site.

Obviously I must finish with a thank you - I sincerely hope the guys who put the site together are making a good living out of it because never was it more deserved and the amount of work they must have to put in to “stay ahead of the game” can only be phenomenal. The guides are so detailed and accurate and utterly invaluable. To say the £19.45 fee was money well spent is an understatement. Really it was joining this site that empowered us which is what so many sick and disabled people need. I hope we all live to see the day when there is a public enquiry into the way the DWP administrates the benefits system. The legacy of illness, suffering and death appalls me and I hope one day will be properly exposed and looked back on with horror by future generations.

Tailyboosh wrote: Hope it helps some souls out there to share our tribunal experience last Friday 15 February. My husband has chronic Hepatitis C and has cirrhosis of the liver. This is also complicated by other conditions but I’ll try to keep it short and focus on what related to the verdict.

He was appealing to be placed in the Support group from the WRAG group. It was 7 months between lodging his appeal and receiving his appeal papers. During this time I twice wrote to DWP to ask for confirmation that we were even in the process and never received answers. Also during this time the WRAG payments he had received for 6 months ceased and no further financial support was forthcoming.

The appeals papers arrived just before Christmas, followed by a letter from the Tribunals Service saying that he could expect to wait 36-40 weeks. We skim-read through the appeals papers a couple of times but it seemed there would be no hurry, so we didn’t start working on them. In January my husband got a call from the Tribunals Service saying they were trying to clear the backlog and could his case be heard at an alternative (and actually infinitely more convenient) venue? The answer, of course, was yes.

By now, being nearly a year since my husband first entered the benefits system, it was time for re-assessment. Two brown envelopes, a new ESA 50 form and a letter from the Tribunals service announcing our appeal date arrived in same week. This letter dated 1 February arrived on 5 February giving an appeal date of 15 February and asking for any further evidence to be submitted 7 days before. This gave us 10 days notice to prepare, and our final evidence (which fortunately we had) had to be turned around by return of post. The new ESA 50 gave us until 4 March to reply, so had to go on the back burner until we knew what would happen at the tribunal and found out what on earth we were to do with it depending on the outcome.

Needless to say, some frenetic activity ensued. I did a written submission because I find it easier to express things on paper and it helps to focus my mind. Firstly I listed anything in the appeals bundle that had been presented as fact that we thought was inaccurate. Then I listed any interpretation of the facts I thought was inaccurate, Then I listed other points I thought should be taken into consideration. I finished by summarising, including what we thought the outcome should be and why, using points of law wherever possible. There was no time to submit this before the tribunal, so I took it with us.

If you have never been to the tribunal venue before, it’s probably best to arrive at least 20 minutes before you need to be there. First you may need to park and then you need to navigate the building. The first surprise for me was the airport style security to enter – handbag search and metal detector looking for perfumes, sprays or sharp objects. This wasn’t a problem except that if I had known anyone would be looking in my handbag I might have tidied it up a bit! It can be uncomfortable to feel you are “on the back foot” before you’ve even started. You may find yourself in a large building with lots of stuff going on and if the receptionist is busy dealing with other people you may also find that the first person you find to ask doesn’t necessarily have a clue what goes on where. If you can’t move quickly, easily or far, you won’t want too many anxious hurried walks around the place to find out where on earth you should be and you won’t want to be worrying whether you are in the right waiting room for the right court room and anyway, can you find anyone to tell them you are there and will the tribunal start without you?

We couldn’t find an usher but the court clerk (?) found us in the waiting room, explained what would happen next and led us in when it was our time. Yes, it was “round the table” but boy, that was a hell of a table! I was a bit surprised to find the doctor and judge sitting practically on the other side of the room which was a bit daunting at first. However, we found them both to be shrewd, impartial and considerate.

They asked my husband questions but nothing to worry about, just things to find out what his life is like. The doctor had to shut me up when I opened my big mouth much too soon but after I dutifully sat in silence and scribbled down a note to remember what I wanted to say, I was given the opportunity to speak. In fact, I didn’t have much to add, as most of what I wanted them to know was in the written submission now in their possession.

When it was over we were sent out and called back in again in due course (not long) for the verdict. In our case regulation 35 of the ESA Regulations 2008 was found to apply; in that there would be a substantial risk to my husband’s physical health if he were found not to have limited capacity for work. Perhaps best of all, they made a recommendation that he is not re-assessed for at least 24 months! This we still can’t quite get over and just daring to believe that we might now only be a few brown envelopes away from a bit of peace gave us the most wonderful weekend imaginable (although it still makes me cross that we are at the mercy of a system that gives us such a rollercoaster of emotions in pursuit of justice).

Remember to look at what the law considers to be important and match your case to that. However galling it may be, what seems to you the most obvious points in your favour won’t necessarily carry the most weight. To me, the most blindingly obvious and simple fact is that my husband is much too ill to work, not the fact that working would make him more ill; but our appeal was upheld on the latter. As we all know, if you can move your arms and legs and hold a conversation, an inability to work will in all likelihood be the hardest thing to prove. We were helped by the supporting evidence of 3 doctors’ letters (an independent health care professional employed by my husband’s former employer, then later submissions from his specialist and his GP). The doctor on the tribunal seemed to give considerable importance to his compromised immune system and inability to fight infections.

I asked their advice about what to do with the new ESA 50 form and was advised to ring the DWP with the result of the verdict and ask if we still have to fill it in. We are still waiting for the outcome of that.

Lucky me, I have a job and am able in mind and body but was still exhausted and stressed by the whole process. I have deliberately left all the anguish out of this account as I am sure it will be all too familiar to you. My heart goes out to those of you out there who are alone, ill, penniless and find it hard to concentrate – especially if you can’t find £19.45. If you struggle with the (brilliant) guides on this website because of your condition, do get help from the CAB or one of the relevant organisations that subscribe to this site.

Obviously I must finish with a thank you - I sincerely hope the guys who put the site together are making a good living out of it because never was it more deserved and the amount of work they must have to put in to “stay ahead of the game” can only be phenomenal. The guides are so detailed and accurate and utterly invaluable. To say the £19.45 fee was money well spent is an understatement. Really it was joining this site that empowered us which is what so many sick and disabled people need. I hope we all live to see the day when there is a public enquiry into the way the DWP administrates the benefits system. The legacy of illness, suffering and death appalls me and I hope one day will be properly exposed and looked back on with horror by future generations.

Hi Tb,

Wel done on winning the appeal.

Thank you for your very eloquent, (if not a tad overlong ) post.

Thank you very much for your kind comments regarding all at B&W.

The site owner Steve does not receive any external funding to run the site, and as you can see we do not allow any form of advertising.

The Moderators are all sick or disabled volunteers, and receive no payment, we do appreciate positive feedback.

Just to pick up on a small error in your post, Reg 35 is with regards to "Substantial Risk" if found not to have "Limited Capability for Work Related Activity", and gives entry to The SG.

Reg 29, is with respect to "Limited Capabilty for Work", and gives entry to The WRAG.

bro58

Hi Tailtboosh
Firstly many CONGRATULATIONS on your Victory
Clearly you and your Husband should never have been subjected to this ordeal, sadly this is what our present government are like as they have the power to stop all this going on.

I found your post most uplifting from many aspects, the methodical manner and process followed through the whole procedure was great to read, I will read it again as its well worth it.

Thanks for posting all your efforts and I wish you and your Husband the very best for the future.

Regards, Derek

Many thanks for sharing. my wife has her appeal soon and is dreading it!!

Congratulations on your result.
I have my tribunal next week. Your story gives hope to all that there is some justice in the system.
cm

Many thanks to everybody for your kind feedback.

Bro58 - I hope you will forgive me if I was temporarily forgetting that you guys, the moderators, are the real unsung, unpaid heroes of the day for your tireless work behind the scenes. It's only the second time I have ever posted on any forum anywhere and I am relatively unfamiliar with the works of cyberspace - thank you to you all for enabling us to communicate.

As a footnote, of course, we are inevitably back on the treadmill to a certain extent. DWP want us to fill in the latest ESA 50 as they haven't had notification of the verdict yet and what if I got it wrong etc, etc.... We can wait a week or so if we want until they may or may not have received the result from the Tribunal Service. They also told us the recommendation not to re-assess my husband for a couple of years may also be backdated to the original decision, thus only a year - stilll feels like luxury, whether we have to fill their damned form in or not.

Battle on everyone, battle on!

Best wishes and many thanks again.