thebraille test for the new guidance on ESA

Hi
this has been a useful discussion for me - it's good to be challenged and engage in debate.
- so thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.
I will try to make it clear if any of my comments or opinions are constrained by my official role as an employee of RNIB. So far I don't think they have been -- my opinions are based on what I understand the regulations that govern the 'new' WCA to mean, not unfortunately what I would like them to mean.

to answer various points in order
1) from ash; -- how far have our various first tier tribunals proceeded?
Our first new WCA refusal to get as far as a hearing was 1 December. It was adjourned for DWP to respond to my submission that activity 7 did not demand both sight and hearing loss.
DWP have responded (but not answered the point) and tribunal service were aware of the new guidance and have added a copy to the papers.
We are now waiting for this appeal to be re-listed.

In the meantime I have asked for any of my other ESA appeals that come up with dates to be postponed, awaiting the result in this case. So far postponments have been granted.

I may change my approach in the next couple of weeks, and send a copy of the guidance as extra evidence in all outstanding ESA appeals. I am considering also asking in every case that the tribunal service makes a direction that JCP have to consider the revised guidance and re-consider the appeal -- either changing their decision or preparing a further submission.
it's a slow process ...

2) Everyone who says the official guidance says certain blind peope without hearing loss will go into support group is perfectly correct. The guidance does clearly say that.
Unfortunately I don't think that is correct based on my reading of the LCWRA test -- but that is just my opinion.
I'm not a tribunal judge.

If I was taking an appeal to get a client with sight loss and no hearing loss into the support group, my difficulty would be that the tribunal would point me to the wording of activity 7 of the LCWRA.

It has both an activity description, and descriptor.
The activity is "understanding communication by hearing, lip reading, reading 16 point print or using any aid if reasonably used' -- I think the 'or' is fatal. I could not at tribunal justify reading that any other way but that an ability to do any one of those means that the person then should fail the descriptor.

3) That doesn't mean that I think the LCWRA is logical or fair, or that there shouldn't be a campaign to change the rules.

4) I have heard from a number of blind people who have been placed in the support group. good for them.

5) I think there are also further serious problems with the revised guidance, especially its advice that the claimant's ablity to read braille should be taken into account (in fact that's the title of this thread). I think this is nonsense where the descriptor is about understanding a message from a stranger

I hope this response is helpful.

There was a reasonably well informed debate about ESA and WCA in Westminster Hall on 1 Feb
www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2012-02-01a.267.0
- you may find parts of it of interest.
Chris Grayling was specifically asked about the changed guidance re activity 7, but didn't get round to answering.


In spite of various setbacks, financial privilge, official spin and a vicious press, I think the overall campaign against scattershot cuts and the targeting of disabled claimants is paying off ....

we can only keep up the pressure

Hi Alban
Thanks for the update. I note in the debate that Chris Grayling admitted that there had been an update on guidance but no changes to the descriptors themself. Which is exactly what you are saying.
Good luck with your appeals and I hope you can keep us informed of any changes.
I agree with your sentiments at the end off your message.
I wonder if there will be a backlash when the general public start to hear about severly disabled people loosing their homes!!

Hi!
I wonder if anyone can answer this with regard to discriptor 7.
"understanding communication by hearing, lip reading, reading 16 point print or using any aid if reasonably used'
If taken as read that the person cannot see and does not read braille and they cannot lip read but can hear.
They could understand the simple message "go to the fire escape" but what aids and adaptions are going to get them there.
You would need assistance from another person.
A long cane can find obsticles but not identify where you are in relation to a fire escape the same goes for my guide dog i have to know where i am going before the dog can guide. Even when using a building that you might call familiar like the post office or local council office you might be in differant areas of the same building;would they think it appropriate that a visually impaired person learn every possible permutation of escape and memorise them in every place they frequent.
Can anyone else think of an aid or adaption that would assist a blind person to find a fire escape in an emergency safely, quickly and in all circumstances. Dont forget there expecting you to find this location in the dark with alarms going of with the possible theat of death by fire or bomb.
Easy peasy?
Any thoughts.

Hi RNIB
Sorry to butt in on this thread,i have one question-
Who is helping the deaf? The RNID do not want to know.
I am Profoundly deaf but it seems that i am on my own. Is there an organisation which will help and advise me?


Ralph